posted 08-13-2002 14:04         

Reason I ask...could that be a place where we can communicate with Mr. Communications Director to ask him "Ask Craig" type questions? (Since RCI apparently doesn't approve of channeling customer service through third parties like TUG.)

posted 08-13-2002 15:05            

I just went to AFVC and did some searches, then compared them to RCI Getaways. I did all of these at random. I didn't pick and choose. Ready?

Pahio Shearwater, 2BR, 9/20 or 9/26
AFVC price: $1365/week
RCI Bonus Vacations price: $1050

Tahoe Seasons, 1BR, 9/15, 9/22, 9/29
AFVC price: $520/week
RCI Bonus Vacations price: $400

Lawrence Welk's Desert Oasis, 2BR, many dates 9/6 through 9/28
AFVC price: $747/week
RCI Bonus Vacations price: $575

So where's the injustice? RCI members are getting better rates on what AFVC calls high-demand units.

The problem is in the cheap throwaway weeks called Space-A on the AFVC network These are the off-season weeks in overbuilt areas. Let's try October 2002, Central Florida:

Westgate Vacation Villas, Kissimmee, many dates, 1BR and 2BR
AFVC price: $249/week
RCI Bonus Vacations price: $390-470

Of course, RCI also has a week at HGVC SeaWorld for $420 that isn't available on AFVC. Also Orange Lake Country Club studios $260, not available via AFVC. Harder Hall for $260-320, Studio and 1BR, again not available at all on AFVC.

Go and do some homework and you'll see that none of this is as cut and dried as the RCI bashers want you to believe. Yes, the AFVC folks are getting good deals on a handful of resorts. But RCI members are STILL getting a better price on the high-value properties, and in many cases they're getting exclusive deals that aren't available to others.

It took me all of about 20 minutes to learn this for myself. Anyone who wants to debate this topic should do the same before they start making wild assertions that simply aren't true.

See, some people jump all over me because I ask for evidence. But when I go out and look at the evidence for myself, instead of just taking as gospel what someone else is saying, the picture looks a lot different.

Ed

posted 08-13-2002 15:20            

quote:

---

Subject: Complaints-RCI

"RCI LAUNCHES NEW RESORT INVENTORY MANAGEMENT
SYSTEM
RCIWorks Simplifies Management of Rental Units
for Resort Affiliates
Parsippany, NJ 08-05-2002 -- Resort Condominiums
International, LLC (RCI), today announced the
launch of RCIWorks,..."

My question to your customer service managers is
this: How does this help the timeshare owners?
You are essentially robbing our inventory of
resorts to gain more business. If we, the
timeshare owners, are not ultimately happy and
satisfied then you would have lost what should be
extremely important to you - your credibility and
your reputation.

I think your first and foremost priority is to
the timeshare owners. You have done nothing
lately to show your allegiance to this group of
consumers. Please do not quote to me the many
statistics you have accumulated about satisfied
exchanges. Numbers are just that, they are not
people having to live with a system that does not
deliver on its promises.

My question to you is what are you doing to
address the lack of inventory in your current
system for timeshare owners? Why are bonus
vacations now being rented at ridiculous prices?
What kind of guarantees are you giving to
timeshare owners that their initial investment in
their real-estate purchase and RCI (we all saw
the video) has not gone south?

---

There response was as follows:

quote:

---

Because there are dates and locations for which we receive a higher supply than
demand each year, we experience a surplus of space. In an effort to utilize
this space more efficiently, RCI began offering its members additional vacations
through programs such as Bonus Vacations. However, we still have unused
inventory each year.

Therefore, RCI began offering limited programs to non-members. These programs
specifically target a portion of the space that is historically unused by our
members for exchange vacations or Bonus Vacations. By offering this space to
non-members, we not only manage our inventory more effectively, but we also
introduce non-owners to the timeshare industry and strengthen the Trading Power
of these weeks by increasing their utilization.

RCI remains focused on the needs of its members and recognizes the importance of
their satisfaction. We realize by confirming members' preferred exchanges, we are more likely to retain them as members and ultimately succeed as a business.
The space we offer to non-members does not impact our ability to do this.
Vacations for dates or areas in which we receive a higher demand than supply are
still assigned only to members according to the Trading Power of their deposited
weeks

There are other times of year when demand exceeds the supply of units we
receive. Members own vacation time year-round; however, most request holiday
and school break weeks. As a natural consequence, space is much more limited.

We rely on subscribing members to deposit vacation time in order to fill
exchange requests. Since we will not be able to fill all requests for some
areas and times, it is a good rule to broaden your request if no match occurs
within one or two months. The majority of ongoing searches in our program are
filled within 30 days. If you cannot wait until under 45 days for a last-minute cancellation, broaden your request after a couple of months. Add more areas or
dates -- or just realize it may be unlikely.

While we cannot guarantee that each member will receive his preferred vacation
exchange, many, many locations and travel dates are available. We encourage you
to explore other areas and dates. There is no penalty to decline a unit we
might offer you later.

We value your participation in our program and look forward to serving you in
the future.

Sincerely,

Marjorie Hart
RCI Internet Team - North America

---

posted 08-13-2002 15:59            

Tahoe Seasons, 1BR, 9/15, 9/22, 9/29
AFVC price: $520/week
RCI Bonus Vacations price: $400
RCI Holiday Network : $649.99

Lawrence Welk's Desert Oasis, 2BR, many dates 9/6 through 9/28
AFVC price: $747/week
RCI Bonus Vacations price: $575
RCI Holiday Network : $825 (1 bedrooms only)

Westgate Vacation Villas, Kissimmee, many dates, 1BR and 2BR
AFVC price: $249/week
RCI Bonus Vacations price: $390-470
RCI Holiday Network : $639 - 1,030

Of course, RCI also has a week at HGVC SeaWorld for $420$609 - $759 that isn't available on AFVC. Also Orange Lake Country Club studios $260$449, not available via AFVC. Harder Hall for $260-320, Studio and 1BR, again not available at all on AFVC.

RCI Holiday Network had a lot of these.

------------------
Marina
Mexico Reviews

posted 08-13-2002 16:15            

If you are going to make such an accusation, how about some facts? I've been with TUG since the beginning, and I only know of one RCI employee who posted here. I know of another employee and a former one who have chatted. That's it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trevor:
My ongoing frustration with RCI is not only do we know they read our posts here, I firmly believe that they post here under aliases to defend their actions and to do damage control...

It seems funny that so many specific people constantly defend RCI far beyond the point of arguing with Carolinian...The counter replies always seem strangely tainted. T

---

posted 08-13-2002 17:43            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dani:
Ed and Marina..thank you for posting this information. The accusation that armed services members were obtaining weeks at a cheaper rate than RCI's own members was so often repeated here that I took for granted that this was indeed a fact. I should have looked for myself. This is a reminder of a basic fact of life...just because something is oft repeated does not make it so.

---

I tried saying this at the very beginning of this thread.
"Repeating something endlessly without evidence doesn't make it more true." At which point I was (indirectly) accused of being an employee of RCI!

Amazing. But let me repeat: I have an open mind. I will gladly listen to and look at evidence that confirms what the RCI critics have to say. Show me some evidence and I'll be on your side, guys! But so far, it's all smoke and mirrors, rumors, paranoia, and a consistent avoidance of anything resembling facts.

posted 08-13-2002 17:46            

Trish...good work. I'm keeping my fingers crossed regarding the possiblity of a "guest appearance" by RCI.

posted 08-13-2002 18:50         

I spent my 20 minutes slightly differently. I was curious how well I would do renting versus trading. In particular, I was curious about what was available through the oft cited RCI Holiday if I were planning a trip to Hawaii. In essence, this is what I found:

If I could get my act together and quickly arrange a trip to Hawaii before September 20, I would indeed be best off renting. RCI Holiday has some nice timeshares available for about $700 to $900. That ends, toward the late middle part of September. In October, I could get the Pono Kai for something like $3200 (forget the exact amount, but ouch). I could get the Maui Sunset through the entire fall, halfway into December for the under $1000 price.

Little was available in September through trading. Starting in October, there was very nice availablity on Kauai through Points.

Now suppose that I wanted to plan my trip somewhat better and go next winter or early spring (Jan. through March). I would be entirely out of luck with RCI Holiday. (I suppose I could play risk ball and buy a plane ticket betting on the come that something will become available the last two or three weeks.) Again, there was decent availability through Points, poor availability without an ongoing seach through Weeks. (Poor Fern, your Imperial was available on line, but that was it for Weeks.)

Summarizing, rentals are easily available to Hawaii for last minute travel, but as soon as you begin to extend the calandar out at all, you are pretty much out of luck. (The excepton seems to be the Maui Sunset. I will let others speculate why this one resort stands out as the exception.) Points has decent availability on line for intermediate timeframes periods, Weeks does not. (This might be skewed by the fact that such a large percentage of Hawaiian resorts joined Points.)

Like Ed, I invite anyone to pick there favorite destination and see how they would do with rentals versus trade.

Trevor, I am not nor have I ever been a member of the Communist party.

posted 08-13-2002 19:01            

Also, you say I have no facts. Interesting that I never mentioned names and provided no facts but you seem to know that those people are all long time TUG members and non-RCI people. Who are they that you are referring to? I did some reading of oild posts to get facts and people's opinions can be found by doing a search of a persons posts in the past and you know what, its always interesting to see what facts pop up.

I have wondered in the past Fern whether you were an RCI shill, in fact had myself convinced of it at one time and then read your posts and concluded that you most likely were not. But then I do find it interesting that give this "FACT" that you who have been here from the beginning know of only one RCI employee who has posted here and another former employee who has chatted here. Fern, please excuse me but there are 10,000 members or some such thing and even a person such as Gin Gin who has over 400 posts isn't even a member and yet you know and counter my arguement that RCI have shills here by stating the "FACT" that you know that only one person of the 10,000 members and non-members is an RCI employee. Now I am left wondering how in the world you could ever state or know that? I don't want to leave it hanging with an insinuation but how could you possibly make such an outlandish statement and in the next breath say I am making accusations with no facts.

posted 08-13-2002 19:05            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Roger:
...Trevor, I am not nor have I ever been a member of the Communist party.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by EdB:
OK, fine. The common theme in this thread is that RCI is giving away every week in the store for $234 for any Tom, Dick or Harry who wears a uniform or pretends that he does. Makes a nice story and inflames people mightily. Only it isn't true.

[This message has been edited by EdB (edited 08-13-2002).]

---

Edited to make the post shorter.

posted 08-13-2002 19:49            

I asked her about the weeks that these outsiders were renting. Not a one was the off season of weeks 48-50 and 1-9 when there is more supply than demand. ALL were in weeks where demand exceeds supply, some even in June and August when demand among exchangers greatly exceeds supply. Every week rented by RCI was a week deposited into the spacebank by an owner. The resort does not bulkbank.

RCI is simply not telling the truth.

We have always had some on TUG who demand airtight evidence, but RCI closely guards its info, and of necessity we have to do analysis on what evidence we have, much of it circumstantial.

I remember in the early days of the GPN debate when my analysis of some vague language by RCI was that they intended to do rentals to the general public. Part of my reasoning was the obvious need for RCI to cash out for the Points Partner (or whatever they were called back then) trades. That was one of the reasons I objected to polluting the timeshare exchange system with non-timeshare services. The Points advocates said I had no evidence, that my analysis was wrong, and came up with their own far-fetched analysis. As it turned out, they were wrong and I was right.

I also remember that after a few Tuggers reported that they received the documents from RCI after winning SkyAuction bids, I asserted that the SkyAuction timeshare inventory was coming from RCI. The Points advocates screamed that I had no evidence and that I was wrong. One even repeatedly posted the theory that all of this SkyAuction inventory came from one individual who owned A LOT of timeshare! Again, I was right and they were wrong!

Speaking of SkyAuction, I have seen a lot of cheap rentals there.
I bet they beat the Armed Forces prices.

posted 08-13-2002 20:06            

Sheesh. I give up. I've said repeatedly I have an open mind. Y'all want to repeat a bunch of unfounded allegations. When someone actually looks at the facts, you ignore it. It sure is inconvenient to have to deal with facts that don't fit your worldview, isn't it?

posted 08-13-2002 20:14            

As for me (your words) harranging Carolinian, if you check, its actually the reverse. I've almost completely stopped posting in the "All Points" thread because of it. So have several other people. But when I do reply, which is seldom nowadays, it is because I feel that a balanced view is required.

I have not questioned anybody's credibility in my post, but I did ask you to back your accusation (of RCI Employees posting with pseudonymns) with fact. I still think that's a fair question. You didn't answer it, and I don't think you can or will. No, I don't know everybody who's ever read the TUG BB, but I do know most of the posters.

How long somebody has been posting has nothing to do with credibility. I think that everybody knows that. Its facts to back up statements that goes to credibility. Don't put words into my mouth, please.

I'm not going to "out" the three people I've known from RCI who have either posted or chatted on TUG, but many people here know or remember one or the other of them.

Fern Modena

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trevor:
Excuse me Fern, perhaps we do not know one another on a personal basis as you seem to. Obviously as the longest standing member of TUG you are the voice of who has factual information and who does not. Clearly every time Carolinian posts, the same names constantly harangue him for speaking against RCI. I keep asking myself why this continued attacks against his opinions, like as I stated in the parts that you so carefully editted out, do they enjoy their weeks being used by RCI for the furtherance of RCI? Indeed these people have been here longer than me, wonderful, obviously that gives them more credibility. For all of the other TUGgers out there who have been here less than me, obviously you have less credibility in Fern's eyes than older members. So please keep opinions to yourself. I am totally p/o Fern that you have so nicely taken half of my post and used it as a quote here, out of the context to highlight your point. I consider this extremely inappropriate and would request hereafter that you do not quote half of my arguement.

Also, you say I have no facts. Interesting that I never mentioned names and provided no facts but you seem to know that those people are all long time TUG members and non-RCI people. Who are they that you are referring to? I did some reading of oild posts to get facts and people's opinions can be found by doing a search of a persons posts in the past and you know what, its always interesting to see what facts pop up.

I have wondered in the past Fern whether you were an RCI shill, in fact had myself convinced of it at one time and then read your posts and concluded that you most likely were not. But then I do find it interesting that give this "FACT" that you who have been here from the beginning know of only one RCI employee who has posted here and another former employee who has chatted here. Fern, please excuse me but there are 10,000 members or some such thing and even a person such as Gin Gin who has over 400 posts isn't even a member and yet you know and counter my arguement that RCI have shills here by stating the "FACT" that you know that only one person of the 10,000 members and non-members is an RCI employee. Now I am left wondering how in the world you could ever state or know that? I don't want to leave it hanging with an insinuation but how could you possibly make such an outlandish statement and in the next breath say I am making accusations with no facts.

Where did you get your fact from that only one RCI employee had posted here before? That kind of freaks me out!

---

I quite see and understand and even agree with part of your view and I welcome facts.

I don't mean to have the last word, that is not important to me.

quote:

---

Originally posted by EdB:
Close minded and shrill response????

Sheesh. I give up. I've said repeatedly I have an open mind. Y'all want to repeat a bunch of unfounded allegations. When someone actually looks at the facts, you ignore it. It sure is inconvenient to have to deal with facts that don't fit your worldview, isn't it?

Sheesh. Go ahead, have the last word. This isn't a debate, it's a pep rally.

---

posted 08-13-2002 21:13            

Mr. Barrows states:

quote:

---

Timeshare resort developers provide rental inventory to RCI that is placed into the general pool of weeks that are available to members...not for exchange, but for rental, where RCI members have their pick of the best weeks at significant discounts before these weeks are ever offered to the public.

---

This seems to echo words Craig has used about I.I.'s strategy.

Does one then conclude that all the weeks in the rental pool are "provided" to RCI by developers? Does "provided" mean RCI is buying these weeks from the developer or does the developer give them to RCI for some reason? And does this then finally put to rest any questions that we have heard on this board about RCI "raiding" spacebanks--is this Mr. Barrows definitive answer to that question, is he giving us a resounding "NO"?
edited for clarity

posted 08-13-2002 21:35            

I think it was "EdB" that said that the AFVC was charging "much more" than the $234 for various weeks. (Actually the price, after 1 August is something like $249.) What he, I believe, was refering to is a "rental" section on the AFVC club, NOT the "normal" exchange weeks.

Anyone can access the site, and find the correct information for themselves.

The "cheap" weeks are for the "last minute" availability. I, for one, would hope that the armed forces would be able to utilizes the "last minute" unused inventory, at a very good price. If you have never been in the military, or it was MANY years ago, you have NO IDEA of the stress and strain by the service member, and their families go through.

posted 08-13-2002 22:10         

Hm. What do you think RCI did with all the weeks they received from members who traded in their timeshare week for a cruise? Wasn't it something like 60,000 so far, this year? This option is available to Weeks members.

So, Carolinian, you discovered a June week and an August week rented out by RCI, on the OBX? Did the manager contact those owners and ask whether they'd been given to RCI for a regular exchange? Or are you just assuming it?

You know, to cite this example repeatedly as a reason to claim RCI has been untruthful is irresponsible and slanderous. It doesn't seem to matter to you that a reasonable explanation can be given in one thread... you just bring it up in a subsequent thread later!

posted 08-14-2002 05:45            

RCI was in the cruise business for a long time. It is very farfetched to think that this number of members were all trading for cruises (which are an incredibly bad deal!!!). The main thing that indicates that they are not cruise exchanges is the timing. These things started showing up at the same time RCI geared up the expanded rental program. For the prior years that the cruise program existed, they had not been appearing. I guess our owners were smart enough not to get ripped off by the
cruise exchanges. Is this circumstantial evidence? Yes, but circumstantial evidence is admissable in every court in the land and is enough to send someone to the gas chamber!

I have previously suggested that other Tuggers see if they can get someone at their home resorts to look up the same info and report it on this BBS. They need to ask for the RCI inbound reports that show no home resort code.

posted 08-14-2002 07:38            

quote:

---

Originally posted by JP:
EdB: I am one of those who has posted a specific example of a discrepancy between RCI Member rental prices and those of AFVClub rates. While it may very well have been an offseason rental, I can see no acceptable reason for the exact unit to be available through AFVC for about $80 less than it's available to me as an RCI member. Now since I'm retired military I got the cheaper rate...but WHY!!! It certainly seems to me that all RCI members should, at a minimum, have access to rental units at the cheapest rates offered to anyone by RCI (or its partners).

---

Why? Where is that in your contract with RCI? RCI has inventory. Their motivation is to maximize their profit while still satisfying all their customer bases.

Welcome to the real world, in which companies use inventory management systems to offer the same product to all sorts of people at different prices. Their goal is to maximize revenue. By your logic, if you're an elite flyer with an airline, shouldn't you get the lowest price on airline seats at all times? Doesn;t work that way. If you're a loyal customer of Amazon.com, shouldn;t you get the lowest price at all times? Doesn't work there, either.

Bonus vacations are an additional perk of your RCI membership. If you think they're a good deal, then great, they enhance the value of your membership and make it more likely that you'll renew. For many people who never, ever rent from RCI, they're irrelevant.