posted 04-04-2005 08:25               

There have been at least two reports of this attempted scam, including the one in this current thread.

I can confirm that there are no employees or other representatives of TUG who are authorized to make such representations. Thus, such calls are fraudulent.

If you get such a call, consider asking for as much info as you feel comfortable doing and send the info to us at bbsadmin2@tug2.net and we will follow up. For example, if I get such a call, I might say that I can't send a Western Union wire now, but where would I send a check to get things rolling? We have some names of people involved, but we are assuming the names are not real.

posted 04-04-2005 08:40               

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.

posted 04-04-2005 22:15               

quote:

---

Originally posted by JeffW:
If you have it, don't forgot something as obvious as looking at any caller-id information which comes across the line.

Jeff

---

Good Point! Also, some phone systems will tell you the number that called you last if you dial *69 Perhaps by doing this, someone can get the phone number of these scammers. Then, a reverse phone number look-up might reveal their name and address.

posted 04-05-2005 04:49               

Kathy Keller
1414 Presidents Blvd.
Orlando, FL 32809

This is the alledged closing agent to whom one should have wired the $350 via Western Union.

Also the phone number for Greg Kyte is 407-538-0650 which is a cell phone in Orlando, FL from Florida Cellular Service.

posted 04-05-2005 05:42               

If you want to pursue this, it's likely that you'll need to contact the police in Orlando yourself. You have more info than anyone else for purposes of responding to questions that the police might ask.

However, as is usually the case in these situations, it appears as though the address - and almost certainly the names - is non-existent. Use whatever Internet reverse search sites you favor to check it out yourself. Thus, it's likely that there's not much the police can do.

Had you actually wired the funds, someone, probably not in Orlando, would have gone to a Western Union office, displayed falsified identification with the info you have listed here and claimed the payment.

posted 04-05-2005 09:55               

Of course I didn't actually wire any money. And what the police could do, there is a cell phone number in Florida, from the Flrida Cellular Network, that should be easy to track down. And calling Western Union and aks for previous transfers and pickup location would be also an easy task for the police.

posted 04-05-2005 10:08               

Consider this scenario:

• Assume I live in Orlando. I walk into my local police station and report that there was an attempted fraud and I have the alleged - but probably not real - name, address and/or cell phone number of at least two of the perpetrators. The first thing I'm asked is when and where these people attempted to defraud me. I respond that I wasn't a victim, but I'm reporting this because of something I read on an Internet bulletin board written by someone I have never met or talked to.

I'll let you figure out what the response will be.

posted 04-07-2005 05:13               

Yes that what I assmued too so I called up the Crime INvestigation unit in Orlando, and after they found that the address was not correct - daaaaa, they said thay don't investigate cell numbers and do additional research. I guess today you have to commit a crime directly in the Police Headquarters for them to be interested in it?

posted 04-07-2005 06:03               

This not only applies to TUG but eBay and anyplace else on the Internet.

Unfortunately, Western Union has become the preferred method of scamming with the crooks.

If a person just mentions Western Union there is no need to respond to the eMail or ad – it’s a con and the more you get involved the better the chances that the greed that is ALWAYS involved will snare you into a foolish decision.

posted 04-07-2005 18:41               

quote:

---

Originally posted by axel@charter.net:
Dave:
I guess today you have to commit a crime directly in the Police Headquarters for them to be interested in it?

---

Sadly Axel this is too often true. There are so many crimes being committed with so few resources to investigate them that cases such as yours get relegated to the back burner. Is this fair? No but then again life is not fair.

Dave M. gave you good advice.

JMHO of course

frenchieinme

posted 04-07-2005 21:17               

However, just word about my personal experiecen with Western Union, and that was limited to one time. I rented a Williamsburg property to a family from the Bahamas. Of couse we spoke by phone several time prior to the closing of the deal. She paid me by western union, I went to my local grocery store to pick up the money and that was that. GREAT transaction.
So I guess there must be some other scam thing with Western Union that I'm not aware of. And certainly, I am NOT about to send a 'refund' for overpayment by bank check as my friend was asked to do. She got great cooperation from the local detectives in SC. I also recenly had someone go to a Wachovia bank and deposit money direclty into my checking account.
I was leary at first, but as my bank teller pointed out, every time I write a check I give out my name, address, phone, bank account number, and routing number. This is not a 'transfer', which I've done with no-USA residents, but an actual deposit.

Also, while I'm on the subject, I always thought that a 'bank check' was like cash. Seems my friend go the 'bank check' for more than the amount due and them asked to send 'change' by wire. As I said, SC detectives were very helpful. A few weeks later I heard this coverd on a public radio fiancial talk show.
Seems that one caller was suspicious about the 'bank check' received, took it to his bank who verified that is was good, only to have the bank call back two weeks later and tell him that the bank check was fradulent and there was nothing he could do. The talk show host (south eastern states), and apparently well versed, said accepting a personal check was actually as safe as or safer than accepting the bank check.

Oh my.......Toto.......I'm lost in the whirlwind.

I've not had a problem, but how do we protect ourselves?
I have serval conversations with my renters and my 'gut' - so far' seesm to be the best best. But..........

Comments/thought/experienced bankers?

Pat H.....are you reading this!!!

Ruth

posted 04-07-2005 21:29               

PayPal is instant and has all kinds of checks and balances. The money in your account is safeguarded by FDIC and you can shift funds into the money market part (NO FDIC there of course) and get THE highest rates in the country.

Anyone with an eMail address can send and receive cash safely and instantly.

You can use your VISA or other charge cards to pay thru PayPal (Requires a commercial PayPal account in order to receive those funds) and have additional protection from not only PayPal but from the credit card company.

So if someone with a poor understanding of English wants to send you more money than you are asking and then wants you to send the balance back with Western Union – ask them to send it by PayPal instead. The transfer is instantaneous and once the money is in your account it is extremely difficult for PayPal to reverse the transaction – requires a dispute procedure.

Perry

posted 04-07-2005 21:35               

I use Paypal too, but don't like all the fees associated with
paypal and especially extra fees for credit card charges.
But, you are corret, it's one avenue.

posted 04-07-2005 22:03               

I’ve gotten at least a hundred of these con eMails from crooks who can barely write English over the years. ALL of these cons involve Western Union and if you make contact with these crooks they don’t act scared or intimidated – they forcefully respond and you just get drawn deeper into their con.

But ALL of these cons are based on greed – ALL of them. So if you get an eMail or phone call or letter and your heart starts racing – its greed that starts to take over your thought process.

There is NO legitimate reason for anyone NOT to use PayPal – there may be exchange rates involved due to the differences in currency, but that’s not PayPal’s fault.

Also, the charges for using Credit Cards in PayPal are just PayPal passing along the charges of 3% that the banks impose on them – just like the charges added onto just about anything in any store that accepts credit cards.

posted 04-07-2005 22:17               

Sure, I use a credit card and love it. But personally I hate paying the fees; over many rentals it adds up and changes my bottom line. I've also had to walk a good many folks through establising an account (time consuming and paymant delayed) and from my experience one cannot pay witha credit card if you maintain funds in your paypal account. That's been a real 'bug' to me as both buyer AND seller.

But it's not my intent to 'argue' with you as to the effectiveness or safety of paypal. I use it and advocate for others to have an account also. It's just not my 'first' choice of payment due to the fees.

To each his own said the old woman as she kissed the cow!!

Cheers!!

------------------
Ruth

posted 04-08-2005 03:58               

I never used to accept PayPal for any of my rentals – but that changed last year. So many renters felt “safer” by charging their rental on their charge card via PayPal that I just added 5% more onto my rentals and everyone seems happy. Just like at Wal-Mart – everything in the store has that 3% added to it, we just never realize it.

I guess that if I were going to pay someone $3,500 for a ski week from an auction on eBay I’d want some protection too. Escrow is ok but it takes so long and is so complicated – charge cards are simpler.

Perry

posted 04-08-2005 05:35               

If you have a “Premier or Business Account” you can receive credit card charges – the fees amount to about 5%. You can have both a Personal and Premier account – you must use different eMail address and credit cards to open them.

Both buyer and seller have lots of safeguards at their disposal.

Additionally, you can specify that “Buy it Now” in eBay be ONLY authorized with a PayPal account – this keeps out the clowns who run around eBay clicking “buy it now” on items that cost thousands of dollars – and, of course, they have no intention of ever paying – this is just sport to them.

PayPal has 63,000,000 members world wide – this easily exceeds just about any bank on the planet. Each time you sell an item either on eBay or elsewhere the “Seller Reputation” count increases by 1 for each Verified PayPal member. This adds confidence to the transaction.

If you have a “Verified” account status it means that your bank account has been attached to the PayPal account and has been verified by PayPal.

Everyone here on TUG should have a PayPal account – you can hook up your checking account and credit card and start to use it when ever you want. Don’t wait until you have a winning auction on eBay and discover the person wants to use a charge card and pay via PayPal.

Also, you can instantly bill anyone with an eMail account or pay them instantly – you are ready for the folks who just have to pay you more than you are asking for and want instant repayment of the overpayment. Just have them instantly pay you via PayPal and you will be glad to instantly pay them the overpayment via PayPal. (take out 5% for the fees of course)

Perry
P.S. Be prepared to receive eMails daily that claim to be from PayPal – they look so official and advise you about falling for prank eMails. All of these claim that your account is going to be suspended due to some calamity and just click the link in the eMail to go to “PayPal’s” web site where you will be asked for your social security number, your mother’s maiden name, your favorite password and other items. Of course these eMails are from the crooks who wish to steal your identity and ruin your credit rating.

When you get one of these eMails NEVER respond by clicking the link provided – if you place your cursor over the link you will see at the bottom of the browser page the true line – which is, of course, not PayPal.

ALWAYS type in www.PayPal.com for instance and enter your account normally – NEVER CLICK A LINK IN AN EMAIL!!!!!!! Did you notice that placing the cursor over the above link shows the true identity of the link address?

posted 04-08-2005 06:21               

What a terrific and total explantion of PayPal!
Yes, and have you ever noticed that when you 'copy'the bogus messaget to report it to paypal or ebay, you can then see the
'behind the scenes' writing? I found that totally intriguing.
I have gotten the phishing emails for ebay, never paypay, and just recently I got one supposedly from comcast, my ISP.
Just as a point on intereste to non-techie, how do they do that?
(Are those nonsensical words codes? How do they do that, do you know? I'm sure it's totally beyond me, but I was quite surprised to see the 'hidden' typing. For anyone who hasn't tried this, Perry is correct, do NOT click the link, but hit your edit link, select all, and then copy.....amazing what you'll see.)

posted 04-08-2005 06:41               

In the HTML code it's a snap to do - you can easily do it in Microsoft’s FrontPage editor at the HTML level.

I guess with a simple $300 computer the crooks can get a mailing list and send at least 10,000 eMails an hour – 24 hours a day. I’m sure its easy to trap 1 out of 10,000 readers into divulging sensitive information that can lead to your identity being pilfered and the start of a living nightmare.

But the crooks go even further. They can get the eMail address www.PayPalVerifyMyAccount.com for instance and the address looks official. Then they build a web site that looks and feels just like PayPal (just as an example). You are advised of security being paramount in “PayPal’s” mind and that you must prove who you are before your account will be unfrozen.

Within minutes of typing in your social security number and what ever other information they can get credit cards are being requested in your name and mailed to another address.

The other thing folks at TUG should have is a credit watching service – we use www.equifax.com (this is a real link – trust me (Oh right!)). When we applied for the lottery at Marriott’s St. Thomas for week 52 – I got an eMail from Equifax 10 minutes later showing that Marriott had indeed checked my credit rating.

You need this service and it costs just peanuts per year – the alternative is a living nightmare which will cost you tens of thousands of dollars, perhaps your job and who knows what else.

posted 04-08-2005 16:50               

quote:

---

Originally posted by skylerlee:
What will they think of next!

The talk show host (south eastern states), and apparently well versed, said accepting a personal check was actually as safe as or safer than accepting the bank check.

Oh my.......Toto.......I'm lost in the whirlwind.

I've not had a problem, but how do we protect ourselves?

Comments/thought/experienced bankers?

Pat H.....are you reading this!!!

Ruth

---

Hi Ruth, I've been away on business for the last 2 days so this is the first chance I've had to get on TUG.

Personal check, business check, Cashier's/Official Check, money orders, plain old cash........you can't be sure about any of them anymore. Isn't that sad? No matter what banks come up with to stop the crooks, the criminals come up with another scheme. It's a never ending cycle.

How do you protect yourself? Verification! Call the bank where the check is drawn on and verify that it is a good check. Have the money wired to your account and give it 48 hours to make sure it stays there. Have the money wired thru Western Union and go pick up the cash.