posted 06-03-2005 04:19               

Anyone know of an organization that is pro timeshare industry but against the underhanded methods of the majority of its developers?

posted 06-03-2005 14:20            

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Emmy

posted 06-03-2005 17:11            

quote:

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Originally posted by iconnections:
... but I would like to see it covered on TV too.

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posted 06-03-2005 21:14            

quote:

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My young cousin recently returned from Orlando where he and his new wife bought a timeshare from the developer. It occured to me then that had I told my story, they would not have made the same mistake.
Why didn't I?

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Don't know. We tell everyone about exactly how we bought from Marriott and how they can do better, or perhaps extract more out of a developer purchase. There is no harm in a "mistake", if one learns from it. I say mistake because so many here feel developer purchases are such. Of course, numerous TUG'ers have and continue to purchase developer intervals, and some are quite open about their reasons. We've been quite happy with ours and have learned quite a bit about timesharing as a result.

posted 06-04-2005 04:29               

We have owned over 20+ timeshares at one time and have actively been involved with timeshares for over 5 years now. I have also been involved with national politics.

On the whole, the timeshare industry seems to attract the same folks who populate our political arena – folks you would not want as a next door neighbor. Sure you have to do business with them but you get that “icky” feeling after working with them and are happy when you are done working with them.

The main problem with the timeshare industry is selling a product that is vastly inflated and worth a fraction of what they are selling it for. (Remember this applies to 90% of the industry). That over inflated product represents an immediate loss of at least half the money spent with the salesrep and the developer.

Take FairField for example. They hawk their points for a face value of 13.5+¢ a point and the average sale has got to be around 175,000 or more points for about 10¢ each (pre-construction pricing). That loveable sales rep knows full well that the instant the ink dries on the paper those points are worth around 2¢ with an immediate loss of around 8¢ or $14,000.

This immediate loss is further compounded by loan shark interest rates which will just about double that loss in 10 years for a loss of $28,000 on the average. (80% of all developer sales are financed).

It takes a certain type of person to smile and shake your hand knowing that they, personally, caused you to lose that much money – about the cost of a very nice new car. What’s ringing in their mind is the thought of their 6 figure salary and their new car you just bought for them.

That mentality is rewarded and our loveable sales rep eventually becomes the sales manager who eventually becomes the district sales manager, then the regional sales manager and eventually the VP of sales and even the CEO of the timeshare developer.

This is what’s wrong with the entire industry and why it will NEVER change – the folks who are very good at screwing//////// selling you have no scruples and are rewarded big time for it.

The timeshare salesrep can’t be compared to a used car salesperson. With a car there is a big difference between a new car in the show room and one that was bought 6 months ago and has 30,000 miles on it with lots of wear and tear.

There is NO difference between what the sales rep sells and what is available on the resale market – both are “used”.

Brokers who work with resales are a different breed than their brethren who work for the developer – they are the ones you want to do business with.

In conclusion, the timeshare industry will NEVER change – at least when it comes to ethically challenged sales reps.

posted 06-04-2005 14:53               

I just don’t think we will see any change in the paradigm that the timeshare developers use now – it just makes too much money for the developer and the salesreps.

With the real estate market exploding the only segment that is stuck in a rut is the timeshare industry. They do ok and build and build fantastic new resorts that sell for double or triple the real estate value and I just don’t see any way for a change.

Basically the developer is selling a $300,000 condo for $1,000,000 spread over 51 owners. The maintenance fees charged by the developers per week are grossly expensive too. I’m guessing that the average MF is about $700 per week for resorts built in the past 5 years. That means that each condo is generating about $35,000 per year in MF. A real condo would charge about $7,000 for the year. If maid service costs say $100 per cleaning that would account for another $5,000 or $12,000.

So where does the difference between $35,000 and $12,000 go? A lot of it goes into the pockets of the management company to run the resort. Does it really take $23,000 per condo per year to run the resort? I don’t think so. If a real condo can do it for $7,000 per year that leaves $16,000 per year for replacing rugs, furniture, etc. To me this still seems like too much money. But that’s another story.

We here on TUG and elsewhere in the resale market are on the right track – let the person who buys from the developer pay the ridicules price for a bloated resort project and then we buy it for what the real estate is really worth.

Timeshares still should be viewed as a pre-paid expense and NOT a real estate venture.

The condo-hotel market is exploding around the country, Canada, and Mexico and offer a way to participate in the real estate explosion, use of the unit when you want, and rental income from a name brand hotel operator. If you haven’t looked into condo-hotels you are missing out on a fantastic opportunity.

Timeshares have a definite place in ones vacation planning and even retirement planning, just don’t confuse them with real estate. The real estate market offers real opportunities to make money, timeshares can make money – but it’s almost a fluke to do so.

posted 06-04-2005 15:29               

We also attended a Fairfield presentation while on Maui two weeks ago. We like what they are offering, but we traded into the resort they were selling, Kona Hawaiian Village, which we had just stayed the week before. Fairfield points are also tempting because they would convert five of the weeks we own that are with RCI. We would have over a million points with Fairfield if we spent $33,000.

But we are going everywhere we want to go with our weeks, at least so far, so why would we spend another $33,000 for a week on the Big Island, when we don't know if we will ever even have the desire to go to that island again? It made no sense to us. Fairfield has no resorts on Maui and because of that, they have recently affiliated themselves with Outrigger hotels (?) on Maui. At least they could offer an alternative, which is good.

posted 06-05-2005 04:47               

Sounds like you bumped into one of those 10% of developer salesreps that is honest and you need to keep this persons name and phone number. (Get their private eMail address too). Many times this person is the top producer for the resort, and many times this person leaves since they just can’t do what is expected of them day after day.

Out of the 25+ sales presentations we have been to we have found only a few salesreps that we felt were honest, in all cases they turned out to be the top salesrep (in terms of sales) and we always try to keep in touch with them.

Disney has the best, most informed, salesreps we know of. Marriott is second.

FF is unfortunately the worst. The salesreps there know that a typical sale of 300,000 FF Points at 10¢ each is really worth less than 2¢ for an immediate loss of 8¢ or $24,000 the instant the ink dries on the contract. Since 80% of FF’s sales are financed that $24,000 doubles into $48,000 over a 10 year life of the loan.

Imagine; besides paying about .04¢ a Point in maintenance fees per year, or $1,200 per year, throw in all the money that was instantly lost on the day of signing the contract. That amounts to $12,000 plus the $48,000 the own loses for a total expense of $60,000 for just 10 vacations in 10 years.

That lovable sales rep knows full well that the new owners is paying $6,000 per week per vacation for a 2BR (just 10 vacations) and does this day after day after day.

No, it takes a special kind of person to smile and actively look for folks to do this to for a living. The timeshare industry is infested with these folks and they have no qualms doing this to thousands of folks a week. This is why the timeshare industry will never change – these folks are running the industry.

Perry

posted 06-05-2005 07:57               

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Originally posted by PerryM:
rickandcindy23,

Sounds like you bumped into one of those 10% of developer salesreps that is honest and you need to keep this persons name and phone number. (Get their private eMail address too). Many times this person is the top producer for the resort, and many times this person leaves since they just can’t do what is expected of them day after day.

Out of the 25+ sales presentations we have been to we have found only a few salesreps that we felt were honest, in all cases they turned out to be the top salesrep (in terms of sales) and we always try to keep in touch with them.

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Believe it or not I ran into such a rep at Westgate Lakes. When I bought I was promised bonus weeks and a 0% interest loan. CFI tried to renig but this rep worked it out.