posted 02-20-2005 00:44               

quote:

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Originally posted by PA:
READ MY LIPS! No more HK Fees! Even for trade credits.

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What about extra mid-week HC's? My understanding is that you can get these at extra cost at some (maybe all) resorts. I am pretty sure that with a no-h account, we would still need to pay!

posted 02-20-2005 06:06               

quote:

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Originally posted by FLYNZ4:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PA:
[b] READ MY LIPS! No more HK Fees! Even for trade credits.

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What about extra mid-week HC's? My understanding is that you can get these at extra cost at some (maybe all) resorts. I am pretty sure that with a no-h account, we would still need to pay!

/Jim[/B][/QUOTE]

Smart Alec. Had to prove me wrong.

posted 02-20-2005 16:39               

quote:

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Originally posted by BocaBum99:
Jim,

Since you are almost 100% able to get waitlist reservations, why don't you simply ask for 2 separate reservations at the same resort within the partial week timeframe. One for 3-days, one for 4-days. Then, you can get the midweek cleaning for free.

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The problem is that you are not guaranteed to stay in the same room... besides... I was just being a smart alec in proving PA wrong

BTW, I have never aked for a mid-week HC... nor do I think this is something we would generally want to do. As contrasted to a hotel, I actually prefer that no maid is coming into our unit every day. In fact, when I stay in hotels, I often keep the do not disturb sign up for days at a time now.

posted 02-27-2005 05:21            

Lets see ((1.34-.80)*6000)/35 = 92 2nd Weeks or Weekends
Since the heaser doesn't list maintenace fees do some of the bidders think they have no annual charge at all?

posted 02-27-2005 18:02               

quote:

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Originally posted by dcwcce:
The ebay auction os now at $1.34+ a credit
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4354708802&ssPageName=STRK:M EWA:IT

Lets see ((1.34-.80)*6000)/35 = 92 2nd Weeks or Weekends
Since the heaser doesn't list maintenace fees do some of the bidders think they have no annual charge at all?

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I think it is more fair to use ~$50/housekeeping. Even still, it is about 65 free housekeepings. There are certainly people who would benefit from that over just a few years.

I am glad that I got my no-h MUCH cheaper than this... but if I didn't have a no-h account, I would pay this premium (if it was my only way to get a no-h account) since I would break even in less than 2 years. I admit that my WM usage is very atypical.

/Jim

posted 03-03-2005 08:42            

I figure it would take 10 years or less for me to break even.
I'm only 30 so I plan on using it for a lot more years.
And we would easily take a minimum of 1 (3day) weekend a month, if I had no housekeeping.
Not to mention piggy-backing resorts for 1 day here, 1 day there

posted 03-03-2005 14:54               

quote:

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Originally posted by Maz:
...I paid around 25 cents a point for a no hk 8000 credit membership so I didnt have to worry much about the math

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Maz, I've been hearing about your legendary 25 cent a point Worldmark contract for a while now, but don't now the details. How long have you had this? Was this an eBay "Buy It Now" purchase (like CZ's $1000 Christmas Mountain Village UDI), or something else?

posted 03-03-2005 17:59               

quote:

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Originally posted by BocaBum99:
Well, I think we now know the first capability that Trendwest will put into its VIP program. No housekeeping. I guess the market's belief is that the "potential" of getting something for free is worth more than actually getting it. At that rate, I'd rather pay the housekeeping fees.

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posted 03-03-2005 18:00               

quote:

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Originally posted by Judy321:
Maz, I've been hearing about your legendary 25 cent a point Worldmark contract for a while now, but don't now the details. How long have you had this? Was this an eBay "Buy It Now" purchase (like CZ's $1000 Christmas Mountain Village UDI), or something else?

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Judy,

Mine wasnt from eBay...It was from a private party who really disliked the wm system. They didnt want to own it anymore so I helped them find a way out. I probably could have negotiated a better price but I didnt want to mess around. I picked up an additional 8000 credits (regular ownership) for around $2400...I actually paid more for my housekeeping ownership than I did for my no hk...Maz

posted 03-03-2005 20:03               

quote:

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Originally posted by FLYNZ4:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BocaBum99:
[b]Well, I think we now know the first capability that Trendwest will put into its VIP program. No housekeeping. I guess the market's belief is that the "potential" of getting something for free is worth more than actually getting it. At that rate, I'd rather pay the housekeeping fees.

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/Jim[/B][/QUOTE]

Is there something in the bylaws that prevents it? How did they sell no housekeeping fee memberships in the first place if it can't be done again?

Why would TW have to pay for the HK fee? Do they currently pay HK for the current no HK fee memberships?

posted 03-03-2005 23:32               

quote:

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Originally posted by BocaBum99:
Is there something in the bylaws that prevents it? How did they sell no housekeeping fee memberships in the first place if it can't be done again?

Why would TW have to pay for the HK fee? Do they currently pay HK for the current no HK fee memberships?

All this will do is raise the cost of operating WM which they could later argue is the cause of an increase of MF.

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The original memberships did not have HC fees. Back then, I believe it was called "Club Esprit". When WM was formed, they instituted HC fees, but they grandfathered the orginal members since the terms of their original purchase was for no housekeeping fees.

Currently TW does not pay the HC fees of the original members as far as I know... but once again... that was instituted at the inception of WM.

posted 03-04-2005 03:31               

However, I don't think, long term, it would increase the price substantially that TW can sell at, since for the average owner it only increases their value by a few hundred dollars per year at most. I think it would only have the effect of de-valuing all the regular ownerships.

The average rube that buys from TW doesn't know squat about the market, or they wouldn't be buying in the first place. They're not going to pay thousands more for a non-HK account.

As for people knowledgeable about the aftermarket? Consider Fairfield. VIP is worth something. To some people, it's worth a LOT. Most people, however, are of the opinion that they'll just buy twice as many points on the resale market and not be VIP. Plus, since they can buy at the sold-out resorts with lower maintenance fees than the newer resorts, they can still have maint. fees around the same price. AND, when they go to sell, they'll get their money back.

If TW greatly reduced the value of existing contracts, people knowledgeable about the aftermarket would just buy more points on the resale market, rather than buy from the developer to get the perks.

posted 03-04-2005 21:19               

quote:

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Originally posted by Maz:

Judy,
Mine wasnt from eBay...It was from a private party who really disliked the wm system. They didnt want to own it anymore so I helped them find a way out....

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Thanks, Maz. I'm surprised that you found so one who was so unhappy with WM -- they seem to have a lot of satisfied customers.

posted 03-05-2005 17:07               

quote:

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Originally posted by PerryM:
A no-housekeeping account makes sense if the numbers work out.

Take the sale from Jeff Fudge:
15,000 credits at $1.25 each = $18,750.
30,000 credits came with the account, to me a “fully loaded account” would have 15,000 so sell 15,000 at 4 cents each = $600.

Cost to buy the account was $18,750 - $600 = $18,150 plus closing costs.

A normal 15,000 credit “fully loaded account” is 80 cents each = $12,000.

The lucky owner paid $6,150 more than resale.

At $50 a cleaning that means he will break even in 123 extra visits to WM.

If you did one WM stay per month = 12 per year = 10 years to payback the extra money.

Now if our new owner is a WM fanatic like some of you I know (I won’t mention a fly boy I know) I guess payback would be just a few years.

To me the price seemed too high.

I have a question for WM aficionados: do TW Trade Points qualify for NH if your primary WM account is NH? I’m guessing no.

Perry

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Perry,

I just reviewed my reservation history, and did the calculations, and at the rate that I use WM weekends... this account would have just about paid for itself. I got my no-h account in June of '03.... so about 2+ years, counting the vacations taken to date, plus my pending reservations over the next 13 months. Of course, I paid much less... but the no-h accounts have risen dramatically since '03.

Regarding the other 6000 point no-h account that sold on Ebay for 11,000+... consider the following:

If the owner bought a 14,000 point contract instead for the same $11,000, nobody would be saying they got a bad deal. Of course, this buyer received 8000 annual credits less, but in return got a no-h account.

Next... would you rather have a 14,000 point standard account, or a 6000 point no-h account? I think that for a lot of people, the no-h account would be a better deal. For starters, you could rent 8000 points every year for about $0.06 each... minus the $0.04 MF you would not have to pay... so the net cost per credit would only be $0.02. So, if the no-h account is worth $160/year to you... then it was not a bad deal.

/Jim

posted 03-05-2005 20:02               

Regardless of how we analyze usage one thing is for certain I believe a new “floor” has been established with NH credits. I have a gut feeling that $1.25 per credit is history and higher prices will be demanded. I can’t guess how high, but higher.

I don’t think a NH account will make any difference to the average WM owner, thus the extra cost is just a waste of money.

There are WM aficionados out there who would greatly benefit from a NH account at almost any price – given enough usage and enough time; one of them is named Jim!

We are interested in purchasing a NH account since we plan to make to maximize our WM usage in the next 20 years – so we are one of the folks who will pay a ridiculous price for a NH account – within limits. The eBay auction the other day went beyond my definition of ridiculous!

There are enough of these accounts that surface during the year so paying absurd prices is not necessary. Hopefully the auction will coax other WM owners with NH accounts to sell them.

Perry

posted 04-14-2005 10:22               

Here's another Worldmark Non-housekeeping account for sale:

This time they're asking $1.50/credit:

/////////////////////THIS WILL NOT LAST LONG////////////////////////
..........NO HOUSEKEEPING CONTRACT.............