posted 02-12-2005 09:36            

My experience in Weeks: A motel conversion (on the beach), a mediocre resort (on the beach), a mediocre unit in England, a wonderful (top rated TUG) two bedroom unit, and a week at my home resort (also very nice - a stay in paradise). This was done using RCI for two years, and, one of the oft mentioned independents two years.

The one good trade during the five years comes with a story. The independent exchange company had lost my desired exchange. Rather than trying to get a replacement, we were put at the bottom of the list. (I was put behind other people with higher rated resorts than my own who were now asking for the same exchange. I got no consideration for the fact that they had lost my exchange.) It got to the point that I feared not getting an exchange at all. I ended up asking what was in their inventory and took the nicest resort on the list. It was very nice but not where I had intended to go.

My experience in Points: Let me start with what I consider to be my principle exchanges for each year. Twice to England at top rated resorts (once for a three bedroom unit), once to the Berkshires, once to my home resort, and (not decided yet) either to the Pacific Nature Shores resort in Vancouver or the Shell Vacation Club in Tucson. The three bedroom unit allowed my wife and I to take a retired nun for her first trip outside of the country. It was a Mastercard experience – priceless.

In addition, we have been able to visit friends and relatives in the Hill Country outside of San Antonio (during a white week), a week in Panama bird watching (hotel unit, best price I could find via other means, $200 per night), will be taking friends for two days of rest and recuperation, post wedding (their daughter’s) (rental price for the same unit, eighty percent of our maintenance fees), and, have provided my brother and sister-in-law with their own one bedroom unit while we are all in Hawaii together.

The majority of our exchanges were within Points – four were not. Two of those four were for England where the advantages of crossover trades are not the great. In fact, the principle savings (in points) came from traveling when we wanted (the end of May, early June when the rhododendrons and azaleas were in full bloom and there are fewer tourists at the attractions that we visited). The third crossover trade was for a white week. The fourth crossover trade was for a trip to the Berkshires; it was a steal at about 28,000 points. I find it hard to believe, however, that we were displacing any Weeks members for this exchange. Admittedly, the resort was full or near full during the weekend, but then it was seventy percent empty during the week. Put differently, the only reason it was full during the weekend was because of weekend sales promotions.

Summing up, we have used our points for a hotel room, mostly one-bedrooms, and, when needed for a two bedroom and a three bedroom.

I’ll let others judge. Which system has offered us more flexibility? Which system has offered us better value?

(Oh, by the way, I have used frequent flyer mileage four times while using Points: twice for domestic trips, once for Hawaii, and once for an upgrade to business class on our trip to Panama.)

------------------
Owner since 1996 (a paltry one)
TUG member since 1997

posted 02-16-2005 03:48               

Meanwhile, points sound almost too good to be true for those of us who like to reserve a year in advance. I can really choose almost anything, it sounds like, within the system (whether it be WM or FF etc.)

My question to you: How did you get points with a timeshare? I know Marriott converts to hotel points, but I would never buy a Marriott for that reason.

posted 02-16-2005 06:01               

Roger, your experience perfectly illustrates the flexibility of Points which can be achieved without raiding weeks. I have been in Points for approx 2 years and similarly exchanged 4 August weeks for 6 offseason weeks plus 1 other August week.

You could argue that I can achieve a better return from DAE which offers me a bonus off season week for all August deposits. However, until the availability and quality of the exchanges improve I won't be giving them my units - a bit of a Catch 22 situation for DAE.

posted 02-16-2005 07:15               

Points (Sunterra, Fairfield and RCI) completely reversed the story. We have been able to specify the unit size, resort and dates exactly as we want them. We only "pay" in points what we want. So a 1 BR doesn't cost us our full years value of points from our 3 BR deposit as it would have in weeks. We find great locations even as the use date is close vs needing to plan 2 or even 3 years out with weeks. The reason I have jumped at every opportunity to convert my weeks to points (although NEVER giving up my deed) is that points exchanges simply work better for us. Having used both extensively I can say points wins 9 out of 10 times.

posted 02-16-2005 08:13               

We have had similar experiences – glad we made the change to RCI Points.

Of course if you want even more flexibility in a Point Based system - check out WorldMark or FairField.

Perry

posted 02-16-2005 08:27               

Going to points (Fairfield) opened a whole new world though. A prime example is a weekend we just took a couple of weeks ago. I reserved a 4BDR Penthouse unit at Governors Green in Williamsburg. If you haven't seen a Fairfield Penthouse, they best be described as palatial. I reserved this 8 months out for 3 nights and is the resort's lowest season. I then waited until 60 days out (to get my VIP Gold discount) and reserved 4 additional 1 BDR units for 2 nights each. At 45 days I got a free upgrade on each of those to 3 BDR units. I canceled 2 of the 3 BDR units because some people couldn't make it. My wife was told that something was planned but not what. This was a surprise party for her birthday.

posted 02-17-2005 10:14               

----------------
RCI Weeks trades using week 25 1-BR GC Florida Oceanfront:

August 1-BR in Cape Cod converted motel

September 1-BR in Crete, Greece

December 1-BR in Palm Springs

March 1-BR in Ft. Lauderdale

March 2-BR GC in the mountains of Virginia

----------------
RCI weeks trades using various Fairfield weeks deposits

March 2-BR GC in Acapulco

March 2-BR GC in Mazatlan

August Studio in Antigua

----------------
RCI points trades:

August 1-BR in Cape Cod converted motel (Points inventory)

July 1-BR GC in Sedona (Points inventory)

April 3-BR GC in Scotland (Weeks inventory)

October Studio AI in Dominican Republic (Points inventory)

March 1-BR GC in Grand Cayman (Weeks inventory)

posted 02-17-2005 17:15               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Linda74:
We own one week at Vistana and one in Australia. We converted both to points. In the last 12 months we have made the following exchanges:
1 week Santorni (Greece)April 2004
1 week Skiing Vermont January 2004
4 days skiing vermont Feb. 2005
1 Week Scotland (Moness Country Club)July 2004
1 week France (Le Golfe Bleu)Oct. 2004
1 Week Austria (Schloss Grubhof)Oct. 2004
1 week Orange Lake Country ClubJuly 2004
1 week Mayan Palace Nuevo Vallarta Feb 2005
3 days Las Vegas April 2005
I still have 35,000 points to use by October before they expire...Many exchanges were under 20,000 points. When all of my points were converted we did have about 208,000 (this included weeks spacebanked and turned into points) but this was all done using only two years worth of points and I have not even begun to use my 2004-2005 points...so for us points was a no brainer....have to work hard to use them all up..our grown children help with that!!!!

---

Linda,

Those exchanges Rock!!! Congratulations. Points Rule!!!

posted 02-17-2005 20:31               

All of you have made an assumption- that exchange is the sole or major purpose. That's true for many but not all. I would never consider an exchange program like II or RCI, I'm not alone. First I have to pay a silly yearly fee for which I receive a nice book. Second is another exchange fee per each trade ransaction. All of this just adds to the cost. Third, I can not be sure of going where I want. The advantage of such a system (weeks or points)is...?

We own 10 weeks. 4 are fixed, 6 float prime time at their respective resorts. We use 6 ourselves each year to go to Atlantic Beach, NC in the summer, the NC mountains in the summer and Daytona for Bike Week, Biketoberfest and 2 weeks for July 4/Pepsi 400. Oh yea, each of these are large enough to bring a family couple, guests or whatever. I rent the other 4 for Daytona Bike Week and Biketoberfest to cover my expenses. My 4 rentals cover about 75-80% of my total mf and taxes for the 10 units. And I have WELL under 15k total in investment on these, 6 weeks are GC.

So try that with FF points, RCI or II (check the points required for Bike Week at FF in Daytona, RCI, II, etc.), WM, Sunterra, etc. Be sure to include yearly membership and exchange fees. I buy to use or rent. If I wanted to go somewhere else I would rent out one of our weeks that we use ourselves and then rent where and when I want to go rather than buying points or a trade week with yearly membership and exchange fees. Go on TUG rentals, redweek, ebay, etc. and check rentals at great places. Why tie up so much capital when you can rent a 2 br Royals in Cancun for under $1k for a great week? Even less for a great place in Orlando if you want to do the Disney thing. I just don't understand the allure of the 'trade' thing, be it weeks or points based.

------------------
Steve H. Barr
Raleigh, NC

Assorted summer Daytona and North Carolina beach weeks.

posted 02-18-2005 04:37               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Steve Barr:
I've got to laugh at the 'weeks rule, points bad' vs. points rule, why consider weeks' arguements. It's like listening to hard core Democrats vs. hard core Republicans. In truth folks, each have advantages. It all depends on what you want your timeshares to do. By the way, much of these ongoing points vs. weeks arguements strikes me as 'the pot calling the kettle black'.

All of you have made an assumption- that exchange is the sole or major purpose. That's true for many but not all. I would never consider an exchange program like II or RCI, I'm not alone. First I have to pay a silly yearly fee for which I receive a nice book. Second is another exchange fee per each trade ransaction. All of this just adds to the cost. Third, I can not be sure of going where I want. The advantage of such a system (weeks or points)is...?

We own 10 weeks. 4 are fixed, 6 float prime time at their respective resorts. We use 6 ourselves each year to go to Atlantic Beach, NC in the summer, the NC mountains in the summer and Daytona for Bike Week, Biketoberfest and 2 weeks for July 4/Pepsi 400. Oh yea, each of these are large enough to bring a family couple, guests or whatever. I rent the other 4 for Daytona Bike Week and Biketoberfest to cover my expenses. My 4 rentals cover about 75-80% of my total mf and taxes for the 10 units. And I have WELL under 15k total in investment on these, 6 weeks are GC.

So try that with FF points, RCI or II (check the points required for Bike Week at FF in Daytona, RCI, II, etc.), WM, Sunterra, etc. Be sure to include yearly membership and exchange fees. I buy to use or rent. If I wanted to go somewhere else I would rent out one of our weeks that we use ourselves and then rent where and when I want to go rather than buying points or a trade week with yearly membership and exchange fees. Go on TUG rentals, redweek, ebay, etc. and check rentals at great places. Why tie up so much capital when you can rent a 2 br Royals in Cancun for under $1k for a great week? Even less for a great place in Orlando if you want to do the Disney thing. I just don't understand the allure of the 'trade' thing, be it weeks or points based.

---

Steve,

Congratulations! You have found a nice model that works for you. Good, but not even close to the best. I can beat your economics with a point system and still get almost anywhere available in the exchange system world for way less than renting.

And, I count memberships, exchange fees, cost of capital and I'll even throw in tips.

And, nothing in these models violates rules of the exchange companies.

posted 02-18-2005 05:14               

quote:

---

Originally posted by BocaBum99:

Steve,

Congratulations! You have found a nice model that works for you. Good, but not even close to the best. I can beat your economics with a point system and still get almost anywhere available in the exchange system world for way less than renting.

And, I count memberships, exchange fees, cost of capital and I'll even throw in tips.

And, nothing in these models violates rules of the exchange companies.

[This message has been edited by BocaBum99 (edited 02-18-2005).]

---

I'm with Boca 100%. It's super that you've found something that works for you although I can match or exceed the economics as well. The problem with your system for me is that it's premised on going to the same place at the same time every year at high demand times. That would drive me crazy. We have a few resorts that we go to regularly, but in the off season to avoid the crowds. They'd make poor rentals. A points system with a large family of resorts suits our needs much better.

posted 02-19-2005 10:00               

Bocabum99 and robnsunny are both right, you have to find what works for YOU. For some, flexibility, going at the last minute, and exploring a new place each year are the goals. For some, points and exchange. For some,weeks and exchange. So, either points or weeks might work better, depends on what you want to do.

For us, we have to plan well in advance due to work and like to hit Daytona Bike Week in Mar., 2 weeks for July 4/Pepsi 400 and again for Biketoberfest in Oct. 2 summer weeks in beach and mountains of NC. We can arrange 6 weeks/yr. but not without advance planning and some times of the year do not work for us. Now, if we were retired that might change. So, robnsunny need flexibility, I doubt that fixed weeks work for that goal. I want the exact time and place at lowest cost, points or week exchanges are a poor choice for us as they add cost and uncertainty in reserving.

Bocabum, I'm a professor so you have to give me data before I will believe that your system is more efficient or cheaper. Here's my data- 10 units owned, all beachfront(9, 4 are GC) or mountain (1). High demand times (Bike Week, July 4, summer on NC beach, etc.). Total acquisition cost for all 10 under $15k, my 4 rentals cover most of my yearly m.f. + taxes for all 10 units. For 2004 my 'out of pocket costs' (i.e. mf + taxes not covered by the 4 rentals) was around $1000 for the 6 weeks we used ourselves. Giving credit where due, Fletch was the one who got me started on timeshares.

As we say in my business "show me the data". If you win, I bow to you as the 'king of efficient' vacations.

------------------
Steve H. Barr
Raleigh, NC

Assorted summer Daytona and North Carolina beach weeks.

posted 02-19-2005 10:55               

Bruce

quote:

---

Originally posted by BocaBum99:

Steve,

Congratulations! You have found a nice model that works for you. Good, but not even close to the best. I can beat your economics with a point system and still get almost anywhere available in the exchange system world for way less than renting.

And, I count memberships, exchange fees, cost of capital and I'll even throw in tips.

And, nothing in these models violates rules of the exchange companies.

[This message has been edited by BocaBum99 (edited 02-18-2005).]

---

posted 02-20-2005 06:48            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Steve Barr:
Hi Folks,

Bocabum99 and robnsunny are both right, you have to find what works for YOU. For some, flexibility, going at the last minute, and exploring a new place each year are the goals. For some, points and exchange. For some,weeks and exchange. So, either points or weeks might work better, depends on what you want to do.

For us, we have to plan well in advance due to work and like to hit Daytona Bike Week in Mar., 2 weeks for July 4/Pepsi 400 and again for Biketoberfest in Oct. 2 summer weeks in beach and mountains of NC. We can arrange 6 weeks/yr. but not without advance planning and some times of the year do not work for us. Now, if we were retired that might change. So, robnsunny need flexibility, I doubt that fixed weeks work for that goal. I want the exact time and place at lowest cost, points or week exchanges are a poor choice for us as they add cost and uncertainty in reserving.

Bocabum, I'm a professor so you have to give me data before I will believe that your system is more efficient or cheaper. Here's my data- 10 units owned, all beachfront(9, 4 are GC) or mountain (1). High demand times (Bike Week, July 4, summer on NC beach, etc.). Total acquisition cost for all 10 under $15k, my 4 rentals cover most of my yearly m.f. + taxes for all 10 units. For 2004 my 'out of pocket costs' (i.e. mf + taxes not covered by the 4 rentals) was around $1000 for the 6 weeks we used ourselves. Giving credit where due, Fletch was the one who got me started on timeshares.

As we say in my business "show me the data". If you win, I bow to you as the 'king of efficient' vacations.

---

posted 02-20-2005 08:27               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Steve Barr:
Hi Folks,

Bocabum99 and robnsunny are both right, you have to find what works for YOU. For some, flexibility, going at the last minute, and exploring a new place each year are the goals. For some, points and exchange. For some,weeks and exchange. So, either points or weeks might work better, depends on what you want to do.

For us, we have to plan well in advance due to work and like to hit Daytona Bike Week in Mar., 2 weeks for July 4/Pepsi 400 and again for Biketoberfest in Oct. 2 summer weeks in beach and mountains of NC. We can arrange 6 weeks/yr. but not without advance planning and some times of the year do not work for us. Now, if we were retired that might change. So, robnsunny need flexibility, I doubt that fixed weeks work for that goal. I want the exact time and place at lowest cost, points or week exchanges are a poor choice for us as they add cost and uncertainty in reserving.

Bocabum, I'm a professor so you have to give me data before I will believe that your system is more efficient or cheaper. Here's my data- 10 units owned, all beachfront(9, 4 are GC) or mountain (1). High demand times (Bike Week, July 4, summer on NC beach, etc.). Total acquisition cost for all 10 under $15k, my 4 rentals cover most of my yearly m.f. + taxes for all 10 units. For 2004 my 'out of pocket costs' (i.e. mf + taxes not covered by the 4 rentals) was around $1000 for the 6 weeks we used ourselves. Giving credit where due, Fletch was the one who got me started on timeshares.

As we say in my business "show me the data". If you win, I bow to you as the 'king of efficient' vacations.

---

Steve,

I don't need titles. A title and a buck fifty might get me a cup of coffee.

You can believe me or you can say I am blowing smoke. I really don't care. You were the one who claimed that your economic model cannot be beat by WM, FF, etc. I know for an absolute fact that you are wrong.

I claim that I can do better than what you have posted here economically for less than $10,000 upfront capital.

posted 02-20-2005 08:29               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Elan:

I think the question here becomes whether or not one can [b] currently replicate the economics of a given system. [/B]

---

Well, I just did it again this week. So, I think the answer would be YES!

posted 02-20-2005 08:49               

quote:

---

Originally posted by JeffV:
Steve, I think one big difference is that most people don't want to bother with rentals. You are mixing a business with pleasure and letting your business support your pleasure but it isn't the same as someone who just owns timeshares for vacation only. I'm not knocking it, just pointing out the difference. Whatever works is what each of us should do.

---

I agree with Jeff. There are lots of people with 1 or 2 timeshares who get great economics with their purchase. With trade ups still so readily available in weeks systems, it's hard to beat with a points system if the trades you can get are what you really want. Lots of people have figured out that game. The whole rentals game by the exchange companies and by individuals is making that game more difficult by the day.

posted 02-20-2005 12:24            

quote:

---

Originally posted by BocaBum99:
Well, I just did it again this week. So, I think the answer would be YES!

---

My comment was actually directed more toward Steve. I know your purchases are relatively recent, Boca.

posted 02-20-2005 13:50               

Note how Boca plays it very close to his vest and does not list any of his timeshare ownerships in his profile? I am sure he has good reasons!

It takes a bit of work but some of us are having a lot of great fun with our (my retirement) hobbie and enjoy timeshare vacations more than fully paid for by our timeshare hobby-addiction.

After 4 plus years of ownerships and due to flipping few ownerships for profits, (and upgrading) we now have comparably little money of our own invested in our 6 core timeshares that produce most of our rentals and produced about 750,000 low cost RCI Points in 2004.

The RCI Points Partners is program that is one that has saved us a lot of money so far.

But to each there own way of timesharing and what ever floats their boat.

Bruce

quote:

---

Originally posted by Elan:

I think the question here becomes whether or not one can [b] currently replicate the economics of a given system. [/B]

---

------------------
Bruce F. & Judy Czajkowski, Kansasville Wi. Judy is a teacher and Bruce is retired and thinks that you are never to old to have a happy childhood. Also own at Driftwood Inn, Vero Beach wk 14, wk 52 Sea Club IV,Daytona The Islander wk 12(non RCI or II) North Reddington Beach and a Rayburn Country that is somewere in Texas.