Author
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Topic: Harborside Purchase Questions
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PatShaver TUG MemberPosts: 68 From: Louisville, Ky, USA Week 32 Silverleaf Ozark Mtn Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 03-24-2005 13:39
We still haven't found that "deal" to purchase at Harborside and my brother wanted to wait awhile. Now we're back looking for a Harborside week to buy but we're getting very confused by some of the real estate agents' remarks. Since we realize we can't trust what they say and most of them are wanting a quick sale, I'm coming to the board (again) with questions.1. One agent has told us that Harborside has first right of refusal on the purchase. So if the purchase price is too low, they can buy it back. Is that true? I've heard that about Marriott but never Harborside. I also know that some lucky tuggers got bargains and their purchase went through. 2. Another agent was told by Harborside that you can exchange your week easily for the week that you really want. So if this is true, why wouldn't I just buy the cheapest week that I could in the season that we want? 3. Can platinum Harborside weeks can be used to exchange into Harborside for a gold week? For example, we would like to go to Harborisde normally into July but we like the idea that platinum weeks have more points for more flexibility to use for that St. John or Hawaii exchange. 4. What are the Harborside seasons for gold and platinum? Thanks for your time! We're debating whether to purchase a week 26, gold week versus any platinum week. IP: Logged |
dbmMayer TUG MemberPosts: 1955 From: Northern CA Owner: Westin Ka'anapali & Sheraton Desert Oasis Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 03-24-2005 14:38
quote: Originally posted by PatShaver: 1. One agent has told us that Harborside has first right of refusal on the purchase. So if the purchase price is too low, they can buy it back. Is that true? I've heard that about Marriott but never Harborside. I also know that some lucky tuggers got bargains and their purchase went through.
True - Starwood does have ROFR - but I don't know of them using it.
2. Another agent was told by Harborside that you can exchange your week easily for the week that you really want. So if this is true, why wouldn't I just buy the cheapest week that I could in the season that we want? . Not true - What you are doing is using your StarOptions to trade within the Starwood system. You have to wait until 8 mos. out when you do this and you have no better chance than any other Starwood owner and you have to have enough options for the other season. The big 3 properties are hard to get into unless you are very flexible about when you can go and a little lucky.
3. Can platinum Harborside weeks can be used to exchange into Harborside for a gold week? For example, we would like to go to Harborisde normally into July but we like the idea that platinum weeks have more points for more flexibility to use for that St. John or Hawaii exchange. If you have enough StarOptions and get lucky - but you have no more chance at it than any other Starwood member who has the same number of Staroptions.
4. What are the Harborside seasons for gold and platinum?
http://www.starwoodvo.com/ownership/staroptionChart.jsp ------------------ Denise [This message has been edited by dbmMayer (edited 03-24-2005).] IP: Logged |
reddiablosv TUG MemberPosts: 215 From: Riverside, CA. USA Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 03-24-2005 15:50
Pat, Denise is correct about your ability to exchange a Harborside Platinum unit for a gold week. Using staroptions your chances of doing an internal exchange are no better than for any other starwood owner with enough staroptions. However, there is another method to pursue. I understand that owners of the big three along with other starwood owners have formed their own informal network to facilitate exchanges amongst themselves. Perhaps another tugger could give you the link, I dont't have it. You might very well find a gold owner willing to trade for a platinum. To change gears a little, I have also had to think thru the situation of which season to buy at the Harborside. I stayed at the resort with an II exchange, loved it and investigated the resale market. I liked the idea of getting more staroptions for the same MFs with the platinum unit, but realized that until my daughter finishes school, I would usually want to use the unit in gold season. If I paid the extra price to get platium, I might not be able to get the time during school vacation to visit the resort. To assure I could get to use the unit, I would be better off buying the season I want to use because there was no guarantee of getting an exchange. Hence, If I bought platinum, I would be paying premuim for a two bedroom unit worth 81k staroptions and still not be able to use the resort. My conclusion was that if you buy at the Harborside, buy in the season you want to use. If you want a 2 bedroom lockoff unit in gold season, there is a listing on ebay right now for 22K. This seems like a good price to me.As far as what I decided to do, I purchased at Vistana Villages instead of the Harborside and received 81K staroptions per year for less than half the resale price at Harborside and one half the MFs. I chose to go this route as I also envisioned myself wanting to trade for other resorts in the starwood system. I did not think the extra cost of the Harborside was worth it unless I absolutely had to vist there every year. I know others would chose differently and I can understand their points of view. I just don't share it. Afterall, even Disneyworld gets boring after awhile. Don't you think the Atlantis might not get boring too? I know that I will be doing a fair amount of trading and I chose to save the money. Ben IP: Logged |
PatShaver TUG MemberPosts: 68 From: Louisville, Ky, USA Week 32 Silverleaf Ozark Mtn Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 03-24-2005 18:39
Thanks for both of your replies. Actually, I did talk to Stephen Vaughn about the unit on ebay and it sold after one day. I think he's leaving the ad out there to get more contacts for the other Harborside units that he has for sale. We would have seriously considered it. He is the agent that told me about the first right of refusal at Harborside.I don't understand why it would be easier to get an exchange at Harborside within your season. Can someone explain that? My brother wants to purchase two thirds of the unit and we will purchase one third. At this time, we would probably split the unit for two consecutive years and then he would take other relatives or friends or rent it for the third year. Even if we don't split the unit, I could definitely see my family returning there every three years. Because of our children and his work, he would really want to purchase a week 26. We've been told that it's easy to get the week you want if you own at Harborside. Is that only true if you buy in your season? He was at the Westin Kierland this week and was told by the salesman there that he would "guarantee" that he could get any week he wanted at Harborside. My brother asked for it in writing. LOL! Is the big 3 - St. John, Hawaii and Harborside? Just curious because he was told by the Kierland salesman that he wouldn't have enough points to get the weeks he wanted at St. John or Hawaii. Thanks! IP: Logged |
dbmMayer TUG MemberPosts: 1955 From: Northern CA Owner: Westin Ka'anapali & Sheraton Desert Oasis Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 03-24-2005 19:31
Pat - This is how Starwood works:At 12 months you can reserve exactly the unit you OWN only. Nothing else - no other size, or season, or resort. If you own a lock-off you can reserve the two sides separately, but still, only exactly what you own. At 12 mos. out, it is fairly easy to get the week you want - but only what you own. At 8 mos. out you can use your StarOPTIONS (not points) to exchange into another Starwood resort, or at your own resort for a different season, or unit size, IF you have enough StarOptions for the unit you want. (This will be a little clearer to you if you look at the StarOptions chart that I posted above.) Your exchange power is totally determined by the number of StarOptions that your unit is worth. It doesn't matter where you own - Starting at 8 mos. out, all Starwood owners have the same chance to exchange when they are using StarOptions. Yes - The "Big Three" are St. John, Ka'anapali, and Harborside - St. John and Harborside have different seasons, with different StarOption values, but Maui is Platinum year round: Maui - 2 BDM. - 148,100 Staroptions 1 bdm. - 81,000 Star options Studio - 67,100 Star options Hope that helps! ------------------ Denise [This message has been edited by dbmMayer (edited 03-24-2005).] IP: Logged |
PatShaver TUG MemberPosts: 68 From: Louisville, Ky, USA Week 32 Silverleaf Ozark Mtn Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 03-25-2005 05:18
So if I'm understanding correctly, you're saying that there is no benefit to owning at Harborside unless you purchase the week you want to use yearly. Is there any advantage then to owning in the same season? If not, I may come to the same conclusion and decide and buy a resale at Vistana or hold out for exactly what we want at Harborside.IP: Logged |
theunitrep TUG MemberPosts: 89 From: Vista, CA Own at: Westin Ka`anapali, Sheraton Mountain Vista and Parkway International Registered: Feb 2004
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posted 03-25-2005 07:34
quote: Originally posted by PatShaver: So if I'm understanding correctly, you're saying that there is no benefit to owning at Harborside unless you purchase the week you want to use yearly. Is there any advantage then to owning in the same season? If not, I may come to the same conclusion and decide and buy a resale at Vistana or hold out for exactly what we want at Harborside.
Pat -- I'm no expert on Harborside, but I believe as an owner you can reserve ANY week during the SEASON you own 12 months prior to travel. So if you own Platinum and want to go during a Platinum week you'll be fine. If however, you own during a different season, you'll have to until 8 months prior to travel to make reservations. Aside from specific Holiday weeks, I question if owners are able to purchase fixed weeks or they are "assigned" a specific week only for legal (deed) reasons. A Harborside owner would be able to tell you for sure! Jerry IP: Logged |
dbmMayer TUG MemberPosts: 1955 From: Northern CA Owner: Westin Ka'anapali & Sheraton Desert Oasis Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 03-25-2005 10:38
quote: Originally posted by PatShaver: So if I'm understanding correctly, you're saying that there is no benefit to owning at Harborside unless you purchase the week you want to use yearly.
If Harborside is where you want to go, owning there is a HUGE advantage because only Harborside owners can reserve 12 mos. in advance - if you buy at Vistana you will be up against all the other Starwood owners trying to exchange into Harborside at the 8 mo. mark.
quote: Originally posted by PatShaver: Is there any advantage then to owning in the same season? If not, I may come to the same conclusion and decide and buy a resale at Vistana or hold out for exactly what we want at Harborside.
Yes - if you are trying to book outside the season you own - your aren't booking as as owner, you are having to use Staroptions at the 8 month mark, and you probably don't have enough for the more expensive season. (see below) Seasons only come into play, when you are reserving at your OWN resort. When you are exchanging into a different resort, it all comes down to how many Staroptions your unit is worth. It doesn't matter what season you own at Vistana, if you are trying to exchange into Harborside - what matters is how many Staroptions the unit is worth. Example - At Vistana, a 2 bdm. lock-off during Platinum season is worth 95,700 Staroptions. A Harborside 2 bdm. lock-off during the lowest season is worth 79,900 Staroptions. At Harborside, a 2 bdm. lock-off during Platinum season is worth 148,100 Staroptions. If you own the Vistana 2 bdm., or the Harborside 2 bdm. during the lower season, you don't have enough Staroptions to exchange into the Harborside 2 bdm. during Platinum season. Since you are exchanging using Staroptions, the seasons don't even come into consideration - it is totally based on how many Staroptions your unit is worth. ------------------ Denise
[This message has been edited by dbmMayer (edited 03-25-2005).] IP: Logged |
stevens397 TUG MemberPosts: 237 From: Randolph, NJ, Owner: Westin Kierland Villas, Marriott Fairway Villas Registered: Dec 2002
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posted 03-25-2005 11:00
not to make it more complicated, but when we had a sales conversation last month in St. John, the Sales Manager indicated that there was an addition to the 12 month/ 8 month rule. He said that owners in St. John (and I assumed Harboside where they sell specific weeks) owners not choosing their own weeks can choose different weeks at the home resort at 10 months, giving them a big edge over regular SVN trades. Has anyone else heard this?IP: Logged |
ciscogizmo1 TUG MemberPosts: 509 From: Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 03-25-2005 11:27
quote: Originally posted by stevens397: not to make it more complicated, but when we had a sales conversation last month in St. John, the Sales Manager indicated that there was an addition to the 12 month/ 8 month rule. He said that owners in St. John (and I assumed Harboside where they sell specific weeks) owners not choosing their own weeks can choose different weeks at the home resort at 10 months, giving them a big edge over regular SVN trades. Has anyone else heard this?
I'd be surprised if this is true because as Westin owner at Kanapali I know we are supposedly guaranteed our view/unit from the 12 month to 8 month window. So, they can't guarantee if they allow Harborside & St John members to trade earlier. Second, I find it hard to believe that Kanapali is less superior to Harborside or St John. If this happens to be true I'd definitely be disappointed in the Westin system. Tina ------------------ You can see my timeshare photos here: http://community.webshots.com/user/ciscogizmo IP: Logged |
theunitrep TUG MemberPosts: 89 From: Vista, CA Own at: Westin Ka`anapali, Sheraton Mountain Vista and Parkway International Registered: Feb 2004
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posted 03-25-2005 11:56
quote: Originally posted by ciscogizmo1: I'd be surprised if this is true because as Westin owner at Kanapali I know we are supposedly guaranteed our view/unit from the 12 month to 8 month window. So, they can't guarantee if they allow Harborside & St John members to trade earlier. Second, I find it hard to believe that Kanapali is less superior to Harborside or St John. If this happens to be true I'd definitely be disappointed in the Westin system. Tina
Tina -- I had to read the message you replied to a couple of times, and how it is written says the 10 month rule (if it exists) would apply only to owners reserving at their HOME resort. It didn't say that owners could reserve at a different resort 10 months prior to travel. Re-read it and see if you understand it differently. Jerry IP: Logged |
ciscogizmo1 TUG MemberPosts: 509 From: Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 03-25-2005 13:11
opps, I guess, I read that wrong. I am reading everything wrong today. Sorry about that. I can see the pros and cons of this though. I'm still not sure if I'd like that if I was a St John or Harborside platinum owner. Because does this mean your window of reserving is smaller only 2 months instead of 4 months?Tina ------------------ You can see my timeshare photos here: http://community.webshots.com/user/ciscogizmo IP: Logged |
reddiablosv TUG MemberPosts: 215 From: Riverside, CA. USA Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 03-25-2005 14:08
This 10 month window for owners at the same resort is a new twist that I have not heard of before. If true, it should be written down and able to be verified with SVN. Perhaps an owner can give us a link to a website were we can research the topic. So much of what we hear from timeshare salesmen is inaccurate, I would want to see it in writting before I would accept this new (ie. new to me) owner preference. BenIP: Logged |
bhurley902 TUG MemberPosts: 820 From: hoboken, nj, usa Registered: May 2003
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posted 03-25-2005 14:11
From Chris' Advice Article:12 - 10 months in advance (home resort priority period): Fixed week owners call to confirm usage of their fixed week, or request a different week in their season. Float week owners can request a floating week in their season. 10 – 8 months in advance (home resort float period): If a Fixed week owner does not reserve his fixed week by month 10, it is made available to Float owners. Both Fixed and Float owners can reserve any week within their season during this period. Note that during this period, owners can only reserve a week at their home resort and season. IP: Logged |
reddiablosv TUG MemberPosts: 215 From: Riverside, CA. USA Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 03-25-2005 14:27
quote: Originally posted by bhurley902: From Chris' Advice Article:12 - 10 months in advance (home resort priority period): Fixed week owners call to confirm usage of their fixed week, or request a different week in their season. Float week owners can request a floating week in their season. 10 – 8 months in advance (home resort float period): If a Fixed week owner does not reserve his fixed week by month 10, it is made available to Float owners. Both Fixed and Float owners can reserve any week within their season during this period. Note that during this period, owners can only reserve a week at their home resort and season.
The above is what I thought to be correct and refers to an owners ability to trade within his own season at the ten month mark. It does not give him the ability to trade outside of his own season. A platinum owner cannot reserve a gold week until the eight month just like all other SVN owners. Is Steve suggesting that he heard something different during his visit a St. Johns? Ben
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stevens397 TUG MemberPosts: 237 From: Randolph, NJ, Owner: Westin Kierland Villas, Marriott Fairway Villas Registered: Dec 2002
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posted 03-25-2005 14:46
I sincerely apologize if I confused anyone. The last post, with the quote from Starwood, is EXACTLY what I was trying to convey. The ten month mark is only for trading within your within your own resort.They were trying to sell me Platinum season for less than week 7, saying I would have an advantage over other SNV traders from months 10-8. I'll stop now before I confuse anyone else! IP: Logged |
Go2curves TUG MemberPosts: 122 From: Stockton, CA, USA Registered: Apr 2004
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posted 03-25-2005 16:28
Someone else can probably confirm this, but I think they've done away with the 12-10 mo. window on newer phases/properties. I think Harborside Ph I operates w/the 12-10 mo window, but Ph II is just 12-8 mo. At least that was what we were told when we did our purchase on Ph II. On Kierland and Ka'anapali, I'm only aware of the 12-8 mo. period. ChristyIP: Logged |
PatShaver TUG MemberPosts: 68 From: Louisville, Ky, USA Week 32 Silverleaf Ozark Mtn Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 03-25-2005 18:07
When my brother was at the Westin Kierland yesterday they were telling him about the 10-month rule about having priority at your own resort. Of course, they were using that as a sales pitch for him to buy there but he really wants a Harborside week so to him that just confirmed that we should buy at Harborside.Let me make sure that I have this straight: 1. For a resale gold week in Phase 1 at Harborside, we would have a 10-month priority only for a gold week at Harborside (same season). 2. It would not be worth it for us to pay more for a platinum Harborside week and try to exchange it for a gold week because then we will be paying premium for a week and competing against other Starwood owners that might have paid less for their weeks. As long as they have enough points, they have just as much chance as us to get a week. 3. We need to weigh out the cost of purchasing (resale only, of course )) the exact week that we want at Harborside vs. any week in the season we want vs. an inexpensive Starwood week for trading. If we really want a gold week at Harborside, that may be what we end up buying. We were leaning towards a platinum for more trading flexibility so I'm very thankful to have this cleared up. A couple of more questions - Sorry but with spending this much money, we really want to understand everything and we can't trust the salesmen. When our children get older and we are getting tired of going to Atlantis every summer, is it possible to buy a less expensive Vistana Villages 1 bedroom premium resale to add to our 95,700 points so we have enough points for Ka'anapali or St. John's? Is it alright to combine weeks at different resorts? Also, how successful have Harborside owners been in exchanging in their own season? I'm really kicking myself now for not buying that week 31 week on Ebay for $22,000! That may have been exactly what I needed at a decent price to get the week we want. Thanks so much!! IP: Logged |
theunitrep TUG MemberPosts: 89 From: Vista, CA Own at: Westin Ka`anapali, Sheraton Mountain Vista and Parkway International Registered: Feb 2004
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posted 03-25-2005 22:54
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PatShaver: ...is it possible to buy a less expensive Vistana Villages 1 bedroom premium resale to add to our 95,700 points so we have enough points for Ka'anapali or St. John's? Is it alright to combine weeks at different resorts?
You can combine StarOPTIONS from different resorts as long as they are from the same use year. StarOptions are like currency in a savings account that only has a one-year shelf life. You must use them during the designated use year or you will lose them. It was probably just a typo, but make sure you don't confuse StarPoints with StarOptions. These are two separate and distinct facets of the Starwood Program. If you purchase resale, you will not have the ability to utilize the StarPoints portion of the program. I'm really kicking myself now for not buying that week 31 week on Ebay for $22,000! That may have been exactly what I needed at a decent price to get the week we want. Don't kick yourself too hard...They'll be other "deals"! It may take some time, but someone else will be motivated to sell. Jerry
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bxnd TUG MemberPosts: 9 From: Wilton, CT USA Registered: Nov 2003
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posted 03-26-2005 06:03
Just to clarify. Owners with a FIXED week MUST confirm their reservation within the 12-10 month window or their reservation is CANCELLED and they FLOAT with everyone else. They still have preference at their home resort from the 10-8 month window. The 10 month window only applies to fixed week owners. At least this is my understanding. I've found it extremely difficult to trade within Harborside - even owning both platinum and gold weeks. Even more frustrating are the different responses I get from SVO owner services regarding reservations, wait lists, etc. It's taking a while but I'm adjusting as time goes on.Tony IP: Logged |
ciscogizmo1 TUG MemberPosts: 509 From: Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 03-26-2005 10:13
Okay, I get it now. Now I see why it is confusing to me since I own at Maui and we don't have fixed weeks. It makes total sense to me now. ------------------ You can see my timeshare photos here: http://community.webshots.com/user/ciscogizmo IP: Logged |
stevens397 TUG MemberPosts: 237 From: Randolph, NJ, Owner: Westin Kierland Villas, Marriott Fairway Villas Registered: Dec 2002
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posted 03-26-2005 12:36
Tina,As I understood it, it meant that those who purchased Platinum at St. John, rather than a specific week, could trade into any open weeks or to weeks that another user had given up, at the 10 month window, giving them an edge at the home resort over people from other resorts. Remember, after they told me that a 3 BR for week seven would cost $122,000, my hearing may have gone downhill! IP: Logged |
PatShaver TUG MemberPosts: 68 From: Louisville, Ky, USA Week 32 Silverleaf Ozark Mtn Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 03-26-2005 17:20
Tony,Are you having problems exchanging within Harborside at 10 months out at 8am? I would think that it wouldn't be as difficult to exchange within your season. After all, when we were at Harborside last year we met people from Westin Kierland who had traded into Harborside for a prime July 4th week. IP: Logged |
dbmMayer TUG MemberPosts: 1955 From: Northern CA Owner: Westin Ka'anapali & Sheraton Desert Oasis Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 03-27-2005 09:06
quote: Originally posted by PatShaver: Tony,Are you having problems exchanging within Harborside at 10 months out at 8am? I would think that it wouldn't be as difficult to exchange within your season. After all, when we were at Harborside last year we met people from Westin Kierland who had traded into Harborside for a prime July 4th week.
Pat - We haven't tried to exchange into Harborside yet, but based on many frustrated posters on this board, it is difficult to exchange into any of the "Big Three" Starwood resorts. Right now Starwood has 12 resorts in the SVN - due to their exotic locations, Maui, St. John, and Harborside are in far greater demand than the other 9 resorts. So you have the owners at all 12 resorts competing for 3 resorts. Do the math - they can't all go to the Big 3 Resorts on a regular basis. Yes, it is possible, if you can be very flexible about when you go. But if you need specific timeframes, it is very difficult. If your main goal is to go to Harborside, you need to buy there. If you are willing to stay at other resorts, including those not in the Big 3 - then go for a lower price resale. Would you be happy if you could go to Harborside 1 out of 3 or 4 years? But, be aware of how many StarOptions the unit is worth, because that will limit your exchanging power. ------------------ Denise IP: Logged |
stevens397 TUG MemberPosts: 237 From: Randolph, NJ, Owner: Westin Kierland Villas, Marriott Fairway Villas Registered: Dec 2002
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posted 03-27-2005 11:17
As usual, Denise is right. But in addition to being flexible etc, you also need to be lucky. We got the 3 BR in St. John for this year's Presidents Week at about 7 months. But the SVN agent was so shocked that she put me on hold to make sure it was even possible to trade my 2 BR Kierland Platinum for the 3 BR. I was so new to the program and so inexperienced that my first response was, "gee - I'm not sure I NEED the 3 bedroom." Her response was, "sweetie, they NEVER become available. My suggestion is that you make a new friend to take with you!"Now I have to deal with the reality that I'll probably never get to go back to that 3 bedroom suite. The closest I can see to getting a guarantee is to use 80,000 points (10,000 per night + 10,000 for a suite upgrade per night) to get a 1 bedroom suite at the hotel for 5 nights - but without a kitchen. Still, with 72,000 for trading my Kierland for points - and the fact that using my Starwood AMEX for many business purchases gets me over 10,000 points per month - I can't imagine not doing it at some point. The only downside of the Westin St. John villas (to me) is that it was a bit of a walk to the center of things like the beach and pool. And the walk to the other villas (non- 3 BRs) is even longer and steeper. That said, it is SOOOOO worth it. I'm reserved for Kierland already for next year. And starting June (the 8 month window), I'll begin calling for St. John or Harborside. At about 3-4 months, if I don't get lucky, I'll book my airfare to Phoenix. The difference is that if we don't get the trade, we'll be very, very happy to return to Scottsdale. That, to me, is a very successful formula. IP: Logged | |