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Author
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Topic: Need advice buying HGVC affiliated resort
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Marina_K
TUG MemberPosts: 6170
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 05-20-2001 11:45
 
I'm thinking of buying into the Hilton point system. Seems more economical to go about it the way Dawn did, buy a summer week at Sanibel or Marco Island and convert it into points. Just need more information :
- What happens if the resort disaffiliates from Hilton?
- If the week is a floating one, how does Hilton decide what amount of points to give?
- At present, the resort is affiliated with both RCI & II. Can I still trade with II? If yes, how do I do that?
- Looking at the for sale ads, I've seen weeks with values of 12,000, 7,000, 5,000 & 3,500 points. Does anyone know which weeks go with which amount of points?
- What are the annual costs of belonging to the club?
- If I converted 2 weeks, do I have 2 sets of annual fees?
- If I convert 2 weeks, do I pay 1 or 2 conversion fees?
- Is RCI membership part of the annual club dues? If it is, is it a *corporate* membership or a full one?
I know there are others I haven't thought of ....
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Marina Keeney
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Jim and Cindy
TUG MemberPosts: 506
From: Anthem Arizona, USA,Hurricane House flex (HGVC)
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 05-20-2001 13:32
Marina, I believe we, like you, are disillusioned Marriott owners. We bought 1 flex week at Charter Club and then 1 week at Cypress Harbour. We thought we would like Marriott better, because of the number of locations. We LOVE HGVC's service! Give them a test ride and call them at 1-800-932-HGVC and ask them your questions. We have gotten way better exchanges through them and the flexibility is great. We are thinking about dumping our Cypress Harbour and buying another Hilton week, especially after the Marriott Reward changes!
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liubruin
TUG MemberPosts: 1603
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 05-20-2001 17:25
Marina, The answer to many of your questions are contained the in HGVC member guide that I just sent you. The Club Rules are listed in the back and there is a chart listing current fees. I'll answer what I can. If the week is a floating one, how does Hilton decide what amount of points to give? An owner at one of these affiliated resorts will have the answer. But I assume this depends on the weeks that are available to your floating season. The member guide has a big chart that identifies all the HGVC-owned & affiliated resorts, the weeks and the corresponding HGVC season-colors -- Platinum, Gold, Silver and Bronze. The Sanibel, Marco Island and Captiva Island resorts all pretty much have the same weeks/seasons. Platinum for 2001 = weeks 7-13, 51-52; Gold = weeks 1-6, 14-18, 24-33, 43-48; Silver = weeks 19-23, 34-42. Looking at the for sale ads, I've seen weeks with values of 12,000, 7,000, 5,000 & 3,500 points. Does anyone know which weeks go with which amount of points? I've never heard of 12,000 points for one HGVC week. Are you sure that's not a combination of weeks? The highest number of points per week that is listed in the guide = 9600 for a 3BR "Plus" (meaning there is some extra feature in the villa, e.g., size, view, location; availabe at some resorts). 8400=3BR Platinum; 7000 = 2BR Platinum; 5000 = 2BR Gold; 3500= 2BR Silver. (I don't think it is worth getting silver weeks. Several of the HGVC resorts either have no silver weeks (the Hawaii ones) or have just a few silver weeks in a year (e.g., 6 weeks out of the year for the Las Vegas ones). What are the annual costs of belonging to the club? Currently the Club Dues = $79 for U.S. resident. Is RCI membership part of the annual club dues? If it is, is it a *corporate* membership or a full one? The Club dues include your years' services via the HGVC-RCI desk. I don't know what you mean by a *corporate* membership. You must maintain a separate RCI account for non HGVC resorts. Some other fees of interest: If you reserve a week that is different from your "home resort", i.e., less than a week, different season, different resort, different check in date (e.g., your home season may have Friday check in days but you can choose any day of the week to check in)the fee = $39 for each reservation. If you "deposit" your year's Club points to following year, that costs $69. (There is a deadline to deposit points to following year. It was 3/31 this year.) No charge to borrow Club points from following year for this year's use. (No deadline for that.) Complimentary guest reservation if guest is a "Family Member", else fee is $39. RCI exchange fees same as regular RCI fees. As for HGVC's service, I, too, have been impressed. Before we purchased our week, I called the 800 number several times to ask questions re points, confirmation of owenrship week by prior owner (you may need to have the owner call HGVC and authorize this first), reservation system, fees, etc. I spoke to several different reps. I told each of them that I was thinking about buying from an existing owner and asked my quests. Every one of them were patient and polite. I can't say the same about the reps who handle the HGVC email address that's listed on its web site for inquiries. Don't even bother sending an inquiry via email. I never received a response to my last two (sent before we purchased). I finally wised up and just called the 800 number whenever I had a question.
[This message has been edited by liubruin (edited 05-20-2001).]
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guy
TUG MemberPosts: 185
From: san ramon,ca usa
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 05-20-2001 18:42
We also are HGVC owners (1 week or 5000 pts. for our particular resort). There customer service is first-rate, but we did encounter a glitch trying to use a RCI Bonus Week certificate we received for attending a presentation in Scottsdale at another resort. Since we could not contact RCI directly we called the Hilton 800 number. They took our info, charged us the $149.00 fee, and we never heard from them. We gave them over 6 months to make the arrangements and several choices of areas, but they did not contact us. We finally e-mailed and called several times and ended up cancelling and getting a refund. Other than that experience we have been very happy with their coutesy and service.
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Thanh
TUG MemberPosts: 240
From: Gaithersburg, Maryland
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 05-20-2001 20:40
If the week is a floating one, how does Hilton decide what amount
of points to give?
_______________If you own a FLEX week, you must contact HGVC each year, 12 months in advance to reserve your week. Depends on the week # you request and confirmed by HGVC, an equivalent Club point value will be assigned to it (7,000, 5,000 or 3,500). This is where HGVC members have priority over non members who own FLEX weeks from the same resort. The flex weeks at my resort run from week 16 through week 51, which are silver, gold and platinum weeks. If I request week 51 (platinum) with HGVC and other owners who don't belong to the HGVC also request their weeks 51 through the resort's office, I would get my wish before them. The same goes with GOLD weeks. Owners who don't want to join the club and the point system would say that's unfair, but that's just one of the many incentives for us to shell out a lot of money to join the HGVC. You get what you pay for, IMHO. [This message has been edited by Thanh (edited 05-20-2001).]
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liubruin
TUG MemberPosts: 1603
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 05-20-2001 21:21
quote:
Originally posted by Thanh: If you own a FLEX week, you must contact HGVC each year, 12 months in advance to reserve your week. Depends on the week # you request and confirmed by HGVC, an equivalent Club point value will be assigned to it (7,000, 5,000 or 3,500). This is where HGVC members have priority over non members who own FLEX weeks from the same resort. The flex weeks at my resorts run from week 16 through week 51, which are silver, gold and platinum weeks. If I request week 51 (platinum) with HGVC and other owners who don't belong to the HGVC also request their weeks 51 through the resort's office, I would get my wish before them. The same goes with GOLD weeks. Owners who don't want to join the club and the point system would say that's unfair, but that's just one of the many incentives for us to shell out a lot of money to join the HGVC. You get what you pay for, IMHO.
This is really interesting. So you pay a one time fee to join the Club and then each year the number of Club points you can get for your 2BRs (I think most of the S.Fl. HGVC affiliated resorts are 2BRs only, right?) vary depending on the season you managed to reserve? I guess this is similar to my floating week at my non-brand name timeshare. I can reserve any week in the year and it's first come first served w/ re reservations up to 12 months ahead. My trading power (similar to the number of Club points each year) vary depending on how well I plan -- if I reserve a high demand summer week I can get better trades out of it; if I end up with a low season fall week my trading power is so-so. Thanh, it sounds like your resort has a combination of fixed and float weeks? I assume weeks 1-15 and 52 are fixed? Is that the way most of the S. Fl. HGVC-affiliated timeshares work? A combination of fixed and float weeks?
[This message has been edited by liubruin (edited 05-20-2001).]
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sandcastles
TUG MemberPosts: 502
From: Terre Haute, In Own at Hurricane House on Sanibel; 2 weeks at PBC at South Seas on Captiva; BWV and BCV with DVC; Foxrun; 2 weekSkiView in Gatlinburg
Registered: MAY 2001
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posted 05-20-2001 21:51
I own a Hilton flex week. I used to belong to HGVC but I dropped out after only one year. It was thier first year in operation and done of the VC were sure of anything. It sounds like it might be worth joining again now.My flex week works a little different on Sanibel. The owners deal directly with the resort to set their flex week, not with HGVC. If fact the November weeks especially, there is usually a drawing because so many members want that time. The drawing is each work and the members can actually be there. So far we have lucked out and got our first choice every time.
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Thanh
TUG MemberPosts: 240
From: Gaithersburg, Maryland
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 05-21-2001 05:20
[*]What happens if the resort disaffiliates from Hilton?
________________There is no telling what will happen when (or if) an affiliated resort becomes unaffiliated with a hotel chain. The way big companies acquire other companies as well as spins off their subsidiaries these days, everything is possible, in my opinion. Having said that, I don't see any reason for any HGVC affiliated resorts decide to be unaffiliated with Hilton at all. Being affiliated with the major hotel chain like Hilton is the best thing ever happen to these resorts. Over the past few years, I've watched my resorts tranformed to be on par with HGVC developed resorts. Eventhough we have had to pay very high m/f for our weeks, the moneys were spent to refurbish and upgrade the resorts so beautifully that we really don't mind it at all. I personally felt very lucky that our resorts bacame the HGVC affiliated resorts. Their resale values have gone up steadily since the affiliation. I couldn't afford buying my 4 weeks now had I wanted to. I'm going to enjoy my t/s ownership and whatever deals attached to it for as long as I can, and not worry about what might happen to the t/s industry in the future... (Marina - Sorry if I've violated the double posting rule here. Jus want to float it on top so you can see it) [This message has been edited by Thanh (edited 05-21-2001).] [This message has been edited by Thanh (edited 05-21-2001).]
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Thanh
TUG MemberPosts: 240
From: Gaithersburg, Maryland
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 05-21-2001 05:40
Liu,As far as I know, the only HGVC resort on Sanibel that has the FLEX week program is the Hurricane House. Another TUGer, June, has a post on this resort on this board too.
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Thanh
TUG MemberPosts: 240
From: Gaithersburg, Maryland
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 05-21-2001 05:56
June,You are right about the inefficiency of the HGVC program at the begining. We have watched an waited for it to get through its growing pain (and so did the many unhappy memebers like yourself) for the first five years. The program has evolved into a great one now and the service is quite matured at this point. You might want to consider re join the club. As I had mentioned on my other post, if you and I both put in our requests for the prime week 51 (I, through HGVC and you, through the Hurricane House office) I will get that week before you do! That's just the way the system works.
[This message has been edited by Thanh (edited 05-21-2001).]
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GeorgeJ
TUG MemberPosts: 522
From: San Diego, CA
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 05-22-2001 08:45
If the week is a floating one, how does Hilton decide what amount of points to give?
--------------------------------------------------------------If you're talking about the typical HGVC developed resort, they base it on what they think the demand will be for that week or a block of weeks around it...if it's a peak demand time, they'll designate it a "plantinum" season week. They've already got a good idea of what demand for each week will be when developing the resorts..In this case it would be designated as 7000 points for the week if it were a 2-br platinum week.. I've seen for sale ads (especially auctions on ebay) where the seller really has no idea what they own (such as 2-br 3 bath units at HGVC Flamingo, that don't exist) or how many points they're worth.. The RCI membership through HGVC is a bulk membership of HGVC weeks. You really aren't an RCI member but can use RCI through HGVC's membership. In trying to resolve an RCI problem with a week from another resort, I was told by RCI that I had an RCI Points account. I found out that that was really an HGVC account for my Flamingo week as they told me I had to go through this phone # (Hilton's) to get more information on it.. If you own multiple HGVC weeks, you pay multiple HGVC yearly membership fees, not just one. The $79 fee is part of each week's yearly maintenance fee so you'll have to pay iy on each week you own, not just the first.. I'm not 100% sure, but it seems like you'd also pay 2 conversion fees if you converted HGVC-managed resort weeks into HGVC as they charge for each week...
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Thanh
TUG MemberPosts: 240
From: Gaithersburg, Maryland
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 05-22-2001 10:37
I'm not 100% sure, but it seems like you'd also pay 2 conversion fees if you converted HGVC-managed resort weeks into HGVC as they charge for each week...
_______________________I'm not sure what "conversion fees" George (and Marina) are refering to here. Do you mean you think owners of HGVC-managed resorts have to pay to convert their traditional own weeks to Club Points? Not so. Actually, owners of HGVC-managed resorts are in a pretty good position - having it BOTH ways - when it comes to exchanging our t/s weeks. I own 3 fixed weeks and 1 flex week for over ten years now. Before I decided to join the HGVC memebership in year 2000, I had been (and still am) an II memeber. I have had many sucessful week-for-week trade with II. About six or seven years ago, Hilton wanted to have its present in Southwest FL in the t/s business, so it made a deal with the Mariners (a very well known resort management company in FL at that time) to turn all resorts to the HGVC affiliated ressorts. Hilton offered all of the exsisting owners the oportunity to join its Club with all the perks and exchange options. HGVC Club Point system was a very new concept to us at that time. Few of owners cared to join because of the high initiation cost and the complecation of their exchange rules. The BIG one that kept me from joining the Club for many years was that I would have the first three months each calendar year to "reserve" my own FIXED weeks. If I fail to do so, all my weeks will be automaticly taken by the Club! HGVC would credit my account with the appropiate Club Points to use for my "reservation" on a later dates, but I no longer have the right to use my own week(s) and stay at my own unit, at my home resorts. Eventually, HGVC relented and removed that rule from the membership contract. The new agreements are that I will ALWAYS have my weeks to do whatever I want with them (use/rent/deposit with II). HGVC can't touch them until I call up and notify them that I would like to "release" my week(s). Then and only then, HGVC will have my week(s) and credit my account with the approriate Cub Points. I don't have to pay any conversion fee at all, nada! One way to look at this transaction is that HGVC pays me for my weeks with the HGVC Club Points. I will then use these Cub Points to spend on my future trading within the HGVC system (just like one would be using the Disney dollars in Disney World) [This message has been edited by Thanh (edited 05-22-2001).]
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Marina_K
TUG MemberPosts: 6170
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 05-22-2001 10:46
By conversion fee, I meant initiation fee or the one time fee that needs to be paid to join the HGVC club.I think I'll start a new thread with the other questions I have ...
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juanita
TUG MemberPosts: 869
From: Austin, TX, USA
Registered: MAR 2001
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posted 05-22-2001 15:48
quote:
Originally posted by GeorgeJ:
If you own multiple HGVC weeks, you pay multiple HGVC yearly membership fees, not just one. The $79 fee is part of each week's yearly maintenance fee so you'll have to pay iy on each week you own, not just the first..
George, We own at two Hilton developed resorts and at one Hilton affiliate. We pay three maintenance fees but only one HGVC membership fee/club dues ($79). Our yearly maintenance fee for the second and third resort is $79 less the club dues. The first resort we purchased was a Hilton developed resort and HGVC membership was automatic. Our second purchase was a Hilton affiliate. Because we were already Hilton members, we did not have to pay the HGVC enrollment fee for the affiliate. When we purchased our third resort, which is Hilton developed, I found a clause (I can’t remember where) which states that no matter how many HGVC properties I own, I only have to pay one club dues of $79. At the time we were buying the third, I called Hilton to confirm and they said that was correct. I don’t know if this is true if you own several Hilton affiliates, but if you are paying more than one club dues you may want to give them a call and find out.
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Juanita
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Marina_K
TUG MemberPosts: 6170
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 05-22-2001 17:56
Juanita,Your experience seems to go against what I've been told so far. Do I have this right now?
- There's no enrolment fee if the first property is Hilton-built.
- There is an enrolment fee if the first property is Hilton-managed.
- You're in the club now and each subssquent property can just be added on without any fee.
- Whether you own one, two, five, etc., properties, there is only 1 annual fee/club dues of $79.00, though I should check if they're all Hilton-managed properties.
[This message has been edited by Marina_K (edited 05-22-2001).]
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Marina_K
TUG MemberPosts: 6170
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 05-22-2001 18:04
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Thanh:
About six or seven years ago, Hilton wanted to have its present in Southwest FL in the t/s business, so it made a deal with the Mariners (a very well known resort management company in FL at that time) to turn all resorts to the HGVC affiliated ressorts.That's really interesting, Thanh. I've re-read the reviews and noticed that someone wrote that Sanibel Beach Club was part of the Mariner's group. Is that true? If it is, why didn't Hilton get that one too?
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liubruin
TUG MemberPosts: 1603
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 05-22-2001 18:09
There is no "enrollment" fee if you buy a HGVC-built timeshare (e.g., Flamingo, Las Vegas Hilton, Orlando-SeaWorld or Hilton Hawaiian Village), even on resale. We were automatically placed in the Club system once title transferred ($99 transfer fee) -- I've had no trouble making reservations with this year's points. I am also interested in hearing if other owners can confirm Juanita's experience re multiple ownership but one Club dues.
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Thanh
TUG MemberPosts: 240
From: Gaithersburg, Maryland
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 05-22-2001 19:05
I've re-read the reviews and noticed that someone wrote that Sanibel Beach Club was part of the Mariner's group. Is that true? If it is, why didn't Hilton get that one too?
_________Marina, It's correct that Sanibel Beach Club was part of the Mariner's group at one point, but for some complicated history of the management or development rights involed between this property and Mariners Group that I'm not 100% clear of all the details, Sanibel Beach Club was not included in the HGVC/Mariners affiliation deal. It seems puzlling to me that the Sanibel Beach Club II resort sits right smack in the midle of the Shell Island Beach Club Part I and Part II buildings; the units size, floor plans and even the exterior building srtuture of these two resorts are almost identical, yet Sanibel Beach Club II is not a HGCV affiliate resort while the Shell Island Beach Club is. Maybe Steve and Kathy have more knowledge about this subject...
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rpm
TUG MemberPosts: 107
From: San Antonio, TX Owner: Marriott Vail
Registered: FEB 2001
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posted 05-22-2001 19:07
Marina, with respect to these two points:++ You're in the club now and each subsequent property can just be added on without any fee.
++ Whether you own one, two, five, etc., properties, there is only 1 annual fee/club dues of $79.00, though I should check if they're all Hilton-managed properties. I was reviewing the Ownership documents for the Las Vegas Hilton GVC and all the legal stuff deals with Club Dues (a defined term) on a per timeshare ownership basis. Under VI. Assessments, Sec 6.2: "Each year HGVClub shall establish the annual HGVClub Dues chargeable with respect to each Vacation Ownership Interest" The wording allows for how the charge is set, which is apparently $79 for domestic ownership today. I could not find anything that spoke to multiple ownership variances. The Fee Schedule has a long version of this note appended to the Club Dues entry:
Depending on the Resort's governing documents the Club Dues may be billed as part of the annual maintenance fee and then paid to HGVC. Members of HGVC Eligible Resorts will be billed directly. I assume the 'Eligible Resorts' are the non-Hilton developed resorts they have invited into the program. Now as to what really happens.... :-) [This message has been edited by rpm (edited 05-22-2001).]
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Thanh
TUG MemberPosts: 240
From: Gaithersburg, Maryland
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 05-22-2001 19:14
Do I have this right?
- There's no enrolment fee if the first property is Hilton-built.
- There is an enrolment fee if the first property is Hilton-managed.
- You're in the club now and each subssquent property can just be added on without any fee.
- Whether you own one, two, five, etc., properties, there is only 1 annual fee/club dues of $79.00, though I should check if they're all Hilton-managed properties.
__________Yes, Marina. You got it! The annual membership due is the same ($79.00), regardless of the number of weeks you own, and it makes no difference whether you own at the HGVC developed or affiliated resorts. Isn't that cool?
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liubruin
TUG MemberPosts: 1603
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 05-22-2001 19:18
quote:
Originally posted by rpm:
I was reviewing the Ownership documents for the Las Vegas Hilton GVC and all the legal stuff deals with Club Dues (a defined term) on a per timeshare ownership basis.Under VI. Assessments, Sec 6.2: "Each year HGVClub shall establish the annual HGVClub Dues chargeable with respect to each Vacation Ownership Interest" The wording allows for how the charge is set, which is apparently $79 for domestic ownership today. I could not find anything that spoke to multiple ownership variances.
What is the name of the document with these terms? I want to call HGVC and ask for a copy.
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rpm
TUG MemberPosts: 107
From: San Antonio, TX Owner: Marriott Vail
Registered: FEB 2001
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posted 05-22-2001 19:21
[QUOTE]Originally posted by liubruin:
[B] What is the name of the document with these terms? I want to call HGVC and ask for a copy. "Ownership Documents"...basically all the legal papers that define your ownership interest. Its a bound document containing all the legal papers for a specific club.
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Marina_K
TUG MemberPosts: 6170
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 05-22-2001 19:27
quote:
Originally posted by Thanh:
The annual membership due is the same ($79.00), regardless of the number of weeks you own, and it makes no difference whether you own at the HGVC developed or affiliated resorts. Isn't that cool?
Now, that is cool, and something to get excited about.
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rpm
TUG MemberPosts: 107
From: San Antonio, TX Owner: Marriott Vail
Registered: FEB 2001
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posted 05-22-2001 20:02
Marina, with respect to these two points:++ You're in the club now and each subsequent property can just be added on without any fee.
++ Whether you own one, two, five, etc., properties, there is only 1 annual fee/club dues of $79.00, though I should check if they're all Hilton-managed properties. I was reviewing the Ownership documents for the Las Vegas Hilton GVC and all the legal stuff deals with Club Dues (a defined term) on a per timeshare ownership basis. Under VI. Assessments, Sec 6.2: "Each year HGVClub shall establish the annual HGVClub Dues chargeable with respect to each Vacation Ownership Interest" The wording allows for how the charge is set, which is apparently $79 for domestic ownership today. I could not find anything that spoke to multiple ownership variances. Now as to what really happens.... :-)
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liubruin
TUG MemberPosts: 1603
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 05-22-2001 20:07
quote:
Originally posted by rpm:
"Ownership Documents"...basically all the legal papers that define your ownership interest. Its a bound document containing all the legal papers for a specific club.
Thanks. I just called the owner from whom we purchased our timeshare (in New Zealand) and she's going to mail the docs to me. Being able to describe to her "a bound document . . ." helped her search through the pile of papers. Those planning to buy resale: don't assume HGVC will send you these papers automatically as I did.
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