posted 06-04-2005 11:27               

We purchased a week at Pahio @ Bali Hai on Kauai on the resale market, then stayed at the resort last year and were introduced to the points system by a salesperson at the resort.

Our understanding is that we need to pay either a huge conversion fee or purchase an additional week from the developer to get into the points system, which would convert our Colorado mountain weeks to points as well.

The points for Pahio are huge, though we cannot remember exactly how many points, but if we converted our mountain weeks instead, so that our Pahio week would be converted, we would not get nearly the number of points for Bali Hai, correct?

posted 06-04-2005 18:24               

Rod in this thread is asking a similar question.
http://www.tug1.net/tugbbs1/Forum20/HTML/002562.html

Today, you own a week at an RCI Points resort....and several other RCI Weeks resorts (not counting those that might be II). If you convert this Pahio resort to RCI POints, you're invited to give your RCI Weeks weeks to RCI in exchange for Points (Points for Deposit program, as it's called.)

If instead, you purchase a different domestic or perhaps Aussie resort that is in RCI Points, you'll be able to do the same with your other non-Points weeks...but NOT your Pahio. You can't use "Points for Deposit" on an unconverted week from an RCI Points resort. (you're free to keep exchanging that one in the Weeks' system...if it makes no sense to convert it.)

posted 06-04-2005 20:54               

We attended Fairfield's sales pitch on Maui two weeks ago and the salesman and his manager were trying to talk us into converting all of our RCI exchangers to points by purchasing a week with them on the Big Island for $33,000. That seems a bit drastic to us.

We are so happy with II as an exchange company and seem to get much better choices and availability. RCI has been a disappointment as of late, probably due to the addition of the points system.

posted 06-05-2005 06:55            

quote:

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Originally posted by rickandcindy23:
So that's how it works. They do get your money, one way or the other. That actually makes sense. Timeshare developers seem to find new ways to pull seasoned timeshare travelers into their webs.

We attended Fairfield's sales pitch on Maui two weeks ago and the salesman and his manager were trying to talk us into converting all of our RCI exchangers to points by purchasing a week with them on the Big Island for $33,000. That seems a bit drastic to us.

We are so happy with II as an exchange company and seem to get much better choices and availability. RCI has been a disappointment as of late, probably due to the addition of the points system.

I hope my information about Twin Rivers was helpful. You made a great purchase there. Check out the website for additional information, by-laws, covenants, etc. There is a message board there, too. I am famous for writing on that board.

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As Hat noted, I asked a similar question on another thread, and there were some great responses, which provided excellent recommendations. I'm going to sell my Fairfield week because the cost to convert it to points is outrageous. I've been a Fairfield owner for over 18 years, and I'd like to remain within the Fairfield system, but they've effectively priced me out of the market. Good luck with whatever decision you make.

posted 06-05-2005 08:18               

A 2br/red Worldmark Goldcrown would propably compete with conventional fixed week GC TS's in the $3k to $5k/week range...but this 10k credit WM sells for around $8k resale. We pay a "premium" for the flexibility of the points.That and the access to 55 or 60 resorts (instead of one), seem to make WM worth this premium. The ability to checkin any day of the week, and partial week stays would likely lead to a significant number of days going vacant....thus, we should expect it to cost 10% to 30% more???? (WM offers 'bonus time' to try and fill those vacancies, by the way).

Worldmark is only allowed to sell 45 or 48 (can't recall exactly) weeks worth of credits in each condo to account for this vacancy issue. So, right there, each week (or points equivelence) owned has to be sold at an 8 to 15% premium.

Thus, is there a $2k or $3k "premium" built into my WM ownership? Seems like the supply/demand for this flexibilty is "valuing" this in this manner, or a WM would drop from $8k to something like $5k.

Thus, if I owned a conventional week worth $5k as is, would I pay $3k to "convert" it to Worldmark (hypothetically?...if this were offered in WM (it's not!))....seems like I should be willing to do that. Its' in effect no different from chosing to pay the $8k for my WM.

Separately, if you already own in the Fairfield 'weeks' system, you have access/priority to trade among 50+ resorts there. They charge $1500 or $2300 to "convert" your week(s) to FF Points....might be worth it if you need that flexibility. But lots of FF resales on Ebay everyday (both in points and non-converted "weeks"). Then, FF has their VIP that requires you to buy from the developer (in your case Cindy, for $33k...when the resale value of those points is likely something like $5k).

You'd need to read what VIP Tuggers say about the benefits...some are happy with it inspite of paying so much. However, when FF converts weeks to points, are they removing 8 to 15% of the weeks to account for vacancies (see my WM comment above) on partial week stays?....no! Then why is there an extra $2k cost? Why is that required? Seems to me it merely goes to the developer...why isn't it a $100 to $200 administrative expense?

Separately, RCI Points is different from FF or WM....its not direct ownership in those FF/WM resorts....its an exchange mechanism....based on points (rather than week for week). It's well established on TUG that $199 of any RCI Points conversion fee goes to RCI for their administrative expense. The bulk of the $200 to $4000 (or more) "conversion fee" seems to be fattening the wallets of the middlemen/broker at the expense of owners.

There might be a modest cost at your home resort to become an RCI Points resort (new reservation software? if partial weeks' stays are allowed, you might add staff)...it might be fair to have a modest "special assessment" to cover this cost...and only points converters should pay it. But it appears little goes to the home resort. A few domestic resorts and Australian points resorts seem to be able to do it for $200 to $500. The rest have done their owners a disservice, IMHO, by enlisting the services of the middleman/broker to gouge the owners $2k to $4k at a particular resort.

Hope that sheds some light on the value of points conversions.

posted 06-05-2005 10:29               

quote:

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Originally posted by Hatrack79:
Separately, if you already own in the Fairfield 'weeks' system, you have access/priority to trade among 50+ resorts there. They charge $1500 or $2300 to "convert" your week(s) to FF Points....might be worth it if you need that flexibility. But lots of FF resales on Ebay everyday (both in points and non-converted "weeks"). Then, FF has their VIP that requires you to buy from the developer (in your case Cindy, for $33k...when the resale value of those points is likely something like $5k).

You'd need to read what VIP Tuggers say about the benefits...some are happy with it inspite of paying so much. However, when FF converts weeks to points, are they removing 8 to 15% of the weeks to account for vacancies (see my WM comment above) on partial week stays?....no! Then why is there an extra $2k cost? Why is that required? Seems to me it merely goes to the developer...why isn't it a $100 to $200 administrative expense?

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A correction here. The FF weeks owner gets no special rights to points based FF resorts which is most of them now. To get into those resorts the FF weeks owner has to use RCI trade. They do have priority with other weeks based FF resorts but those are the older ones not the ones built in the past 8-10 years. it is one reason (the high cost of points conversion is the other) that FF weeks resale prices are SO low.

VIP is OK if you got is as part of a purchase you were making anyway. Either on resale or retail if you thought that was a good value. Now that they only allow it with retail purchases the delta is way too high to make it a good value.

posted 06-05-2005 14:05               

quote:

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Originally posted by Rod in Louisiana:
Where are you getting your information abut the $1,500 to $2,300 conversion cost?

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I looked into FF points a year ago. I'm no expert (and don't own any)...but I thought there was one option for a single week conversion for ~$1500 and a 2nd option wherein FF would convert all the weeks you own for $2300 or so.

Someone else can point is in the right direction, I trust.

Hat

posted 06-05-2005 14:11               

quote:

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Originally posted by rickandcindy23:
..The problem I see with that is that our Pahio @ Bali Hai would not be converted to the large number of points that it is supposedly worth, unless we also convert that week to points with the developer. I thought it would be automatic because I understood that once a points owner, you are no longer a weeks owner and all of the weeks you own would have a point value. So I guess, if that is true, our Pahio points would be pretty low.

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Cindy, keep investigating RCI Points. But one correction to your thinking. If you convert to RCI Points elsewhere, your other RCI weeks are still in a conventional RCI "Weeks" account that is somehow attacted to your Points account. You will have to exchange your Pahio via "weeks". There is no provision for using them as points at all. (no such thing as giving them a lower point value).

You may have misunderstood the "generic points table". It gives a regional/seasonal/quality/unit-size based 'generic' value to each non-Points resort in the RCI-Weeks-only world. Since Pahio is a "points" resort....it isn't treated via that table....because you can't use "points for deposit" on an "unconverted" Points resort week. You have to pay the piper, or keep it in RCI Weeks.

Hat

posted 06-05-2005 14:14               

quote:

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Originally posted by rickandcindy23:
I just read my posts and wanted to clarify that Fairfield promised that our five RCI weeks would be converted at the time of purchase at Kona Hawaiian Village and that we would have one million points. That sounds like a lot, but numbers of points are arbitrary without a points chart, so why would we do that?

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posted 06-05-2005 14:38            

quote:

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Originally posted by rickandcindy23:
I just read my posts and wanted to clarify that Fairfield promised that our five RCI weeks would be converted at the time of purchase at Kona Hawaiian Village and that we would have one million points. That sounds like a lot, but numbers of points are arbitrary without a points chart, so why would we do that?

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The Fairfield hype you heard was their PIC program whereby annually you may convert a non-Fairfield week into Fairfield points. I don't know of any guarantee of how long this may last. However, to be able to do that you must buy Fairfield points from Fairfield (i,e,not resale).

Their coversion rate I believe is 105,000 FF points for a 1BR, 154,000 for a 2BR and 254,000 for a 3BR.

For the 1st week you need to buy 77,000 FF points and 28,000 for each additional week.

The last pitch I listened to was that if I bought 231,000 FF points (at about $0.13 per point) for about $27,000 then I could have about 1,000,000 FF points annually. Given that it takes at least 154,000 FF points to get a 2BR red week, then if I spent $27,000 I could turn in my 6 non-FF weeks and get about 6.5 weeks of vacation. Spending $27,000 for an extra half week of time seemed more than stupid, so I politely told them no. At that point they became less than polite with us, so we just quietly got up and left (and collected our "gift" on the way out).

posted 06-05-2005 16:00            

quote:

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Originally posted by JimJ:
The Fairfield hype you heard was their PIC program whereby annually you may convert a non-Fairfield week into Fairfield points. I don't know of any guarantee of how long this may last. However, to be able to do that you must buy Fairfield points from Fairfield (i,e,not resale).

Their coversion rate I believe is 105,000 FF points for a 1BR, 154,000 for a 2BR and 254,000 for a 3BR.

For the 1st week you need to buy 77,000 FF points and 28,000 for each additional week.

The last pitch I listened to was that if I bought 231,000 FF points (at about $0.13 per point) for about $27,000 then I could have about 1,000,000 FF points annually. Given that it takes at least 154,000 FF points to get a 2BR red week, then if I spent $27,000 I could turn in my 6 non-FF weeks and get about 6.5 weeks of vacation. Spending $27,000 for an extra half week of time seemed more than stupid, so I politely told them no. At that point they became less than polite with us, so we just quietly got up and left (and collected our "gift" on the way out).

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I think it depends on the trading power, and how much you spent for the 6 weeks you own. If your 6 weeks are low cost, and with low trading power, I would think that it is quite worthwhile. I personally believes their fairfield has more consistent properties than RCI affiliated timeshare.

My two cents.