posted 12-15-2004 13:43               

I don't own at Maui - I own at Kierland. But I do have some answers for you.

1. What are the tax benefits, if any, to owning TS. Can you write anything off on your taxes?

If you do any financing through Starwood, it will be a mortgage. If you only own one other home, that interest should be deductible.

2. Is it safe to assume the younger you buy the more time you have to break even in the long years to come? I'm 29 and my husband is 30. Currently we average $2000 on a trip a year so with MF and the cost of a 2BD EOY roughly around $30k, I figure we will break even in 30 years. Has anyone computed their ownership in these terms?

We ALL try to do that - usually as a way to justify our purchases! I would tell you that if you regularly spend $2,000 for a vacation, it's probably not with the luxury and space that a timeshare (especially a Westin and a 2 BR) provides. You are paying extra for that and, to me certainly, it's well worth it. But you are certainly correct that the younger you are when you purchase, the more value you will get. I have seen NO data on this, but I'd bet that you are on the very young range of timeshare purchasers.

3. Is there any way or strategy we can use to insist on getting more starpoints for becoming owners? Are starpoints negoiatable?

I think the most important issue is to be knowledgable about what others have gotten at Maui, especially within the last 6 months. Hopefully others on this board can fill you in on this thread. There is often some room to negotiate. I was able to get twice as many points through the now defunct Starwood Direct Sales than had been offered by the on-site sales office. But even on-site offered me 25,000 more than what they said was the going rate after some negotiation. It involved them speaking to the Regional Manager (or so they said), but even that was not enough for me. I got lucky. What I also did was charge my deposit on the Starwood credit card. I took a 12 month loan from Starwood at 4.9% (I think) and also made the payments with the Starwood card. Paid off the 12 month mortgage in about four months, but it added 27,400 points (the purchase price) to my Starpoint total.

4. Lastly, I need some clarification on the ablility to store starpoints. Do the points ever expire? Are you required to use them within 6 years?

I had the same issue with my salesman. Starpoints do not expire, EXCEPT for those points given as timeshare purchase incentives. He said there was nothing that could be done, but that he's never heard of anyone not using them in time. He also said I could call near the end of 6 years and they would certainly consider it on a case by case basis. But, of course, he's a salesman! At worst, if you were in a time bind, you could transfer the points to some airlines that you often use and that would solve that problem.

I'll be using about 1/3 of the points I got for 5 days at the Princeville next summer. As someone almost twice your age, I can also gift them to my kids. Just pick some nice destinations and you'll go through them! Good luck with the purchase and have a great time in Maui!

posted 12-15-2004 16:08               

quote:

---

Originally posted by nikki33866:
3. Is there any way or strategy we can use to insist on getting more starpoints for becoming owners? Are starpoints negoiatable?
Nicole

---

Nicole --

The last word I got (at the beginning of December) from a Westin Ka`anapali Ocean Resort Villas sales representative was that since inventory is getting very low, they are only offering StarPoints in connection with 2 bedroom EOY Ocean View units (60K points).

He advised me there was no incentives points being offerred for Garden/Mountain view units.

The sales representative told me point blank there was no chance to negotiate additional incentive Star Points. It was a "take it or leave it" proposition.

He also told me the sales staff has been advised there will be a price increase in January. He said he hadn't been advised of the exact amount but believes it will be at least $1,000 per week.

For what it's worth, my wife and I just purchased a 2 bedroom Ocean View unit at WKORV on the resale market. The price turned out to be a 39 percent discount off current developer prices.

In our opinion, the money we saved far outweighs the benefits of the "incentive" StarPoints we would have received had we purchased from the Developer.

And since WKORV is one of 5 SVN mandatory resorts, we are still able to exchange under the SVN even though we did not purchase from the developer.

Hope this helps!!

Jerry

posted 12-15-2004 16:17               

First look at the following link, these are units up for sale at the Westin Maui:
http://www.myresortnetwork.com/Timeshares-For-Sale/Lahaina-Maui/Hawaii/Westin-Kaanapali-Ocean-Resort-Villas/

I don’t know current prices; you should call and get them.

You can then compare the developer’s price to resale and see if the difference is worth the item(s) you don’t get by buying resale.

I would use a 10 year analysis – planning past 10 years is so “iffy” that anything beyond 10 years should be left out.

An EOY is good for an expensive timeshare. Going to Maui every year is hard to do – we try it but there are some years that other things prevent us from going.

So you are looking at 5 – 6 vacations and then selling the unit (EOY * 5 vacations = 10 years). After 10 years plan to sell the timeshare. Families grow up, interests change, our health may deteriorate, there are a host of things that might make us sell the timeshare. I can tell you that if you can’t make the numbers work in 10 years they won’t work for 20 or 30 years.

I would assume that you could sell it for 1/2 of what you bought it for (either resale or from the developer).

Account for 5 – 6 maintenance fees.

To sum it up:
1) Cost to buy
2) Add in 5 – 6 maintenance fee payments
3) Subtract out 1/2 of #1

That final amount is divided by 10 years to give you a cost per year. Multiply that by 2 for the EOY and that’s what it costs to vacation at the Maui Westin.

I have a feeling that the numbers will shock you – just a guess. Compare that cost to the rack rate at the Westin and if you are half the cost then owning a timeshare makes sense, if not, well you need other reasons.

You should also do the same for the every other years you don’t go to the Westin. Look at buying another EOY timeshare or renting in those years.

Hope this helps.

posted 12-15-2004 16:34               

Congratulations on finding TUG. I encourage you to continue to read this message board prior to your trip to Maui so that you fully understand what you are getting yourself into with a purchase of a timeshare.

Let me see if I can offer you some useful advice. Remember that this advice is worth what you pay for it.

First, the Westin Kaanapali is one of the finest timeshares that you are ever going to experience. It is at the top end of the top end of timeshares. If this is your first trip to such a thing, you will most definitely get hooked. If you can afford such a luxury item, I would encourage you to not view this as an investment as you will NOT yield the same return as an equivalent condo purchase. In fact, if you purchase from the developer, you will likely lose money rather than make much. It's more like buying a midclass luxury car.

Second, if your typical budget for a week's lodging in Maui is $2000. And, you want an equivalent financial cost, my recommendation is that you look for a 2br unit with an upfront cost of around $18,000 and a maintenance fee of $850. I am assuming a 6% cost of capital even if you have the cash to pay for it because you can probably get a 6% or better return on our cash in other investments.

If you plan to play $30,000 for a 2br EOY, the maintenance fee is about $1200 every other year. So during the years you use it, your actual equivalent cost is 2 years cost of capital since you only get usage once every 2 years which is 2*.06*30000=$3600 plus maintenance of $1200. Your total cost for a week of usage is $4800.

Unless you have $30000 burning a whole in your pocket, I would recommend that you invest your $30,000 in stocks, ETFs or mutual funds if you believe you can do better than a 6% after tax return. Then, rent a Westin Kaanapali whenever you want it. If you go to Redweek.com, you will see many of them renting for less than $4800 per week. And, the good news is that you can rent whenver you want rather than going every other year.

Third, if you really want to go to this resort every two years and your choice is to spend it on the timeshare or a Honda S2000 convertible since cash isn't a problem for you, then buy the unit you like and stay there or rent it out when you don't want to use it. Definitely buy resale or get the exact unit and view you want. I just checked Redweek.com and there is a 2br every year listed for $38,500. You can probably get an every year for $30,000-35,000 if you hold out and are a good negotiator rather than buying from the developer an only getting every other year.

Whatever you do, don't exchange it through an exchange company. Rather, call someone like me up and I'll barter with you. I'd probably offer you something like 2 roundtrip tickets to Hawaii, a rental car and 3 weeks in a 5* or GC resort. You can probably get that much in return for a week in a 2br at Westin Kaanapali.

Lastly, if you are willing to consider timeshares that are a bit more modest than Westins, you can easily buy over a dozen nice timeshares that will allow you to exchange to very nice resorts almost anywhere. That's if you want to play that game which isn't for everyone.

Have fun in Maui. And, don't get taken to the cleaners by the developer. At a minimum, buy resale.

posted 12-15-2004 20:20               

Not trying to talk you out of your dream timeshare, but consider this:
In Kihei, at the southern part of Maui, you can buy 12,000 credits for WorldMark for about $10,000 resale and $550 in maintenance fees per year. The WM is a 5 star and 80% the “quality” of the Westin, but you can go to Maui every year for that.

And those same 12,000 credits will get you to Kauai and Kona.

Here is a link: http://www.worldmarktheclub.com/resorts/regions/hawaii.shtml

AND you can go ANY week of the year you want.

Just something to consider. It’s nice to have alternatives as you make your decision.

posted 12-15-2004 21:52               

Another good point about renting.. You can rent EOY for $4K or less.. Then after a couple trips (4 years from now) Resale deals should be much more plentiful. Probably closer to $15K for what you are looking at.

Good luck and have fun..
Dave

posted 12-15-2004 22:28               

quote:

---

Originally posted by nikki33866:
Is it safe to assume the younger you buy the more time you have to break even in the long years to come? I'm 29 and my husband is 30. Currently we average $2000 on a trip a year so with MF and the cost of a 2BD EOY roughly around $30k, I figure we will break even in 30 years. Has anyone computed their ownership in these terms?

---

Hi Nicole,

We bought our first Starwood (and timeshare!) just last year from the developer, a 2 BD EY. At the time, we were typically spending $3,000 on nice accommodations and figured out that our taste in lodging was changing. With kids, we needed a kitchen and more space, so right away our price went up to about $5,000. We used to stay in a lot of the little condos on Maui, but we decided that we wanted a nice pool, resort amenities, and a nice beach. Doing VERY SIMPLE math, our purchase price of $45K/5K = 9 years. That didn't include the MFs of $1250/year.

At first we decided not to buy, but then I did some even simpler math. If we only kept it for 5 years, and sold it for 1/2 our purchase price, we'd about break-even, and have had 5 very nice vacations at a really great place. So to us it was worth it. We tried to find a resale, but we were impatient and didn't want to wait (it took about a week after we closed escrow for the first resale to surface, at about $8K below what we paid). Still no regrets!

As others have posted, you can rent a week for about $3K or so if you can find an owner who wants to rent a week you want. I don't know if these prices will go up or down. Some of the higher demand weeks are asking more. A 1400 sq. feet villa at the Kea Lani in Wailea rents for about $1600/night! Starwood rent the 2-bedroom villa to owners at a 35% discount at $800/night plus 11% tax, which is still pricey. We were thinking of renting another week next year to add on to our occupancy week, but it may be tricky to find the week we want. I'm trying to convince my husband that we should buy another week and rent it out when we don't want to go for two weeks some year! Would I buy resale or developer....I don't know!

For your $30K, I'd consider buying an OV EY resale for $38,900. That's only $9K more for EY and you can rent it out if you don't want to go every year, or trade via SVN, or give it away to friends, family and TUG members :-). You won't get the Starpoint bonus, but it sounds like you aren't getting a big one anyhow. If Starpoint conversion isn't important to you, then there isn't a big incentive to buy developer (unless they offer you a TON of points).

I wish they would have had the Westin Ka'anapali Villas back when I was 29. We would have bought 2 weeks on the spot. We have been going to Maui for 15 years, and it would have been great to have the timeshare for all those years. It's on one of our favorite beaches for easy shore diving (I was PADI certified there)!

Have a great trip and good luck with your decision!

posted 12-16-2004 11:34            

The one tip I have and I'm not sure if anyone else has said it - if your looking to get more Star Points - apply for a Starwood perferred Guest Platinum American Express Card, and then contact American Express request to up your credit linit to cover your cost of the timeshare purchase.
That way you'll get 1 point for every dollar spent. Wo Hoo!!! Then when you get home go to the bank and take out a second morgage to pay off your credit card which should be a lower interest rate then the credit card and you can use that deduction for your taxes.

Hope that helps and congratulations on choosing Starwoods, your going to love it for years to come.

posted 12-16-2004 17:22            

quote:

---

Originally posted by PerryM:
As I understand it, your credit score (FICO) will drop when you max out your credit card. I don’t know how long it takes for the FICO score to recover – just a thought.

Perry

---

We paid for our purchase through our American Express Card. The accounting department was very accomadating. We paid in three installments so that we wouldn't max out our credit. Besides are purchasing price exceeded our credit limit.

I know someone mentioned they bought a mandatory resort which would allow them to exchange into other starwood resorts. I hate to burst that person's bubble but I doubt they will ever be able to exchange during popular times. I for one will probably never exchange unless I really want to. I think, I want to go to St John & Harborside at least once but it isn't something I plan to do on a regular basis. Otherwise, I'll probably end up just renting our unit for the years we don't use it. I am saying this because a lot people get disappointed when they can't exchange into the high demand areas during peak time. So, I am really a believer of buy where you plan to visit year after year. Especially if you plan to buy an expensive timeshare like Westin. Good Luck on your purchase....

------------------
You can see my timeshare photos here:

posted 12-17-2004 23:03               

quote:

---

Originally posted by 3rdPlanet:
The one tip I have and I'm not sure if anyone else has said it - if your looking to get more Star Points - apply for a Starwood perferred Guest Platinum American Express Card, and then contact American Express request to up your credit linit to cover your cost of the timeshare purchase.

---

We did this when we bought our Westin Timeshare, but when we tried to increase the initial limit on the Starwood AMEX, AMEX said it is their policy NOT to increase the original limit for 6 mos. - and we have excellent credit and no debts except for our home mortgage. After 6 mos. they increased it with no problem, but by then we had paid the TS off.