Mexican Timeshare Fraud - Part II - Timeshare Users Group Bulletin Boards

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Mexican Timeshare Fraud - Part II

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Author	Topic: Mexican Timeshare Fraud - Part II
HK Non Member Posts: 4 From: new york, ny Registered: May 2005	posted 05-15-2005 16:59 Here is the new thread that we've been waiting for! VP- If you could post more information on your cancellation letter, that would be great! IP: Logged
vp Non Member Posts: 3 From: Huntington Beach, CA, USA Registered: May 2005	posted 05-17-2005 17:13 Hi, I did not get the contract administrator's e-mail address but if you call HDM and ask to transfer your call to his office, I am sure they would do that. I can't remember his name either, our conversation was very short. I will post my letter soon. Hope everything goes well. VP IP: Logged
rosi Non Member Posts: 4 From: dc Registered: May 2005	posted 05-27-2005 19:23 Hi, We just got back form a wonderful vacation in Los Cabos. We stayed at the Riu Palace. It was one of the best vacations I've evver had. During our stay we visited the Westin to attend a 90-minute talk about the Club Regina vacation ownership plan. We eneded up buying it on the spot. Feeling confident at the moment but still a bit doubtful in the back of our mind. When we got home we started researching and somehow feel that we might want to get out. In the contract it states thet you have five wirking days for cancellation. Yesterday was our last day for cancellation, we called and wrote several e-mails with our petition. They are refusing to grant our money back!!! First they said that we were already late...that in Mexico Saturday is a working day and that we were already late!!! Then they said that we needed a really good argument for cancellation and that we had none.. They started trying to convince us to stay with the great deal they had provided and offering multiple alternatives to please us (brokers to help us rent the place, etc). They transferred the call to the big shot bully that deals with apparently "the difficult customers". She was very harsh and nasty. Kept emphasizing that we could not cancel and that if by any chance we involved lawyers in the matter, they would keep 35% of our money... ( this part is in the contract although it states that is up to them to retain this %, obviously, something we never read before signing). This is emotionally draining and i don't know what to do... I think I am within the 5 working days (we signed the contract 05-19 and cancelled 05-26). Plase give me advise.. Thanks Does anybody know if we can get out of our contract? We are prepared to pay a cancelling fee but would like to see if anybody here knows if is possible and how much is the penalty. Thanks a lot everyone. IP: Logged
grizwalds7@shaw.ca Non Member Posts: 2 From: Neuvo Vallarta Registered: Apr 2005	posted 05-27-2005 23:09 Hi Rosi, I am so sorry that you are going through this ordeal. I know how much grief it caused us. Regarding your question to me about the 5 day period and whether or not it includes weekends, I got my info about from the website www.mexicolaw.com/ Open the frames view Scroll down to Timeshare issues in Mexico The following explanation is in that section. Cancellation Period There exists a five (5) business day period of cancellation (� business days do not include Saturday, Sunday or Holiday in Mexico), during which the contract does not become perfected, for sales that are described as "at domicile, mediate or indirect". This indicates those sales that are proposed or carried out, outside the local or establishment of the provider, including the rental of chattels and the rendering of services. This also applies to the selling of timeshare rights. This 5 day right of cancellation is not waivable (the buyer cannot give it up) and even if the buyer is convinced to sign a document to give it up (waive the right) that waiver is not valid and the buyer still has the 5 day right. We were advised that the� 5 days start the same day, right after signing the contract. Still it might start the day following. Further consultation on this is appropraite. Hope this helps you out a bit. [This message has been edited by grizwalds7@shaw.ca (edited 05-27-2005).] IP: Logged
iconnections TUG Member Posts: 542 From: sunny Southern California! - Laguna Surf, CA - MDSV-I, Palm Desert, CA - Maui Sunset, Maui, HI - Buganvilias, PV, Mexico - Grand Velas, NV, Mexico Registered: Sep 2003	posted 05-29-2005 10:53 Rosi, if they told you any lies as are stated here: http://www.thetimesharebeat.com/mex-fraud.htm , you can have Profeco help you. Here is a very helpful web site how to go about it. http://www.sws-llc.com/mescam/index.htm You always have the right to cancel within five business days in Mexico but the next question is "Did you follow the cancellation instructions 100%?" If it was spelled out that your cancellation had to be done in writing through the mail, then a phone call or email doesn't count. It would have been better if you had sent it by Express mail and registered too with a request for receipt as you would have had proof in your hand. FedEx or UPS would have been faster most likely with proof of delivery too. If you are not 100% sure if they defrauded you or not, I would contact Profeco by phone and find out if this company has had other complaints against them or not. If they have lied to others, most likely they have lied to you too. I am not familiar with the Club Regina. You may like to scan this link here to see if other people have mentioned it: http://www.tug1.net/tugbbs1/Forum1/HTML/005721.html Please, keep us posted. ------------------ Emmy A picture is worth a thousand words. http://www.picturetrail.com/iconnections/ [This message has been edited by iconnections (edited 05-29-2005).] IP: Logged
rosi Non Member Posts: 4 From: dc Registered: May 2005	posted 05-29-2005 11:47 Thank you for the information. It will be very useful!! I contacted them trough e-mail for the cancellation notification. Here is what the contract states: "Purchaser agree that the purchaser can only terminate this agreement within five working days providing the request is received in writing by an officer of CR Los Cabos in its capacity as marketing ans Sales agent of ARC at the location it was originally contracted" It states "in writing" and does not specify through which method. I am not a lawyer. I hope Profeco can help me. My concerns are: 1- I cancelled in the fifth working day (for me working days are fron Mon-Frid excluding Sat and Sund). I did some research and I could not find much but from what I foung Mexicamn working days are apparently the same as american working days. In the resort they told me that Sat is counted as a working day in Mexico. Is this true???? 2-Apparently according to Mexican law the working day period of cancellation starts at the time you sign the contract. I signed at 3:00PM and cancelled at 11:00 AM. There is no time recorded in any of the documents. Will they fight back with this argument? If so, how can I prove this? Will they fight back 3- They said they will not cancell because I had no reason. I did not give any because I think I do not need to. But I have many.... They lied to me but this is something that I have not even mentioned since it was all verbal lies and is very hard to prove. Does any one have suggestions of how to prove this? They lied about the point system in RCI saying that I could visit any place when reality is that I can only visit a few and with date restrictions.(I found this out when I started doing research after vacation). I do not know much about the point system but if there is something different from what I have stated let me know. Thanks!!!! IP: Logged
rosi Non Member Posts: 4 From: dc Registered: May 2005	posted 05-30-2005 09:36 I have great news!!!! On Saturday I called CR once more and asked for the person who we spoke to on Thursday for cancellation but obviously she was not available. Her name is Kimberly Montano and according to them is the person with the highest position in the cancellation department. I started asking the receptionist if there was any person in the club with a position higher than Kimberly's and she said YES. I asked to speak with this person and she transferred the call. A nice man picked the phone. His name is Bill, an american from California who does not deal with cancellation and probably knows little about the matter. He said he was Sales Manager. He seemed very interested in my case and asked me to e-mail him all the letters writen and so we did. Not only we forwarded all the e-mails but we detailed all the events, names and conversations that we had with all the employes. He wrote back and apologized for the ordeal and stated thet he would see what he could do for us. At this point we were reluctant to think that anyone from that place would help us, even less someone that was in sales and not in the cancellation department. We had to get Profeco involved. This morning we called Profeco (they are great!) and they were very positive about the case. They said that since we were within the five days and had all copies of the mails that we had a good case. Immediately after speaking to Osreel in Profeco, we received a call from Bill. He said that he took care of everything and that the contract was cancelled already!!! He apologized once more. He said he spoke with Kimberly and that everything was solved. He did no give much explanation. Obviously I asked for a writen confirmation and we recorded the conversation. For those that are having problems with cancelletions never give up. Ask to talk to the top notch people in the company who may not be aware of what is happening. I just found out that Bill is the supervisor of all this people. They work for him. He has more power than anyone in that place. We are probably speaking to the wrong people without even knowing. Thanks to all of you in Tug for the advice and support. It is wonderful to have such help!!!! IP: Logged
sherig TUG Member Posts: 45 From: Registered: May 2004	posted 05-30-2005 09:43 I just recently got a response back from Profeco. They asked for the following: 1.Copy of a brief letter (1 sheet max) stating the following: � Supplier�s name, � Description of the facts that origin your complaint, � Date on which you made the purchase, � Cost of the good or service, � Amount you are claiming, � Your name and signature. 2.Copy of your ID (Passport or Driver�s License) 3.Copy of your contract or invoice payment 4.Copy of your bills, credit slips or receipts as evidence of your payments 5.Copy of all the documents available to support the complaint. Our fax & phone numbers are: 0115255 52112052 & 0115255 52111723 Our e-mail: extranjeros@profeco.gob.mx MARTHA A. CARRILLO ALDUENDA MANAGER OF THE DEPARTMENT TO ATTENTION FOR FOREIGNERS Fax your complaint to her ASAP to get things moving. IP: Logged
iconnections TUG Member Posts: 542 From: sunny Southern California! - Laguna Surf, CA - MDSV-I, Palm Desert, CA - Maui Sunset, Maui, HI - Buganvilias, PV, Mexico - Grand Velas, NV, Mexico Registered: Sep 2003	posted 05-30-2005 12:33 I am so glad you got this resolved quickly and thank you too for your kind reply to my email. I knew you would get quick results if you were within your five day cancellation period and you would mention "Profeco" to them. Club Regina doesn't want problems especially if they may join the Starwood Vacation Ownership (SVO) that is rumored about more than once. Now that seems to be a great company! http://www.tug1.net/tugbbs1/Forum6/HTML/001554.html ------------------ Emmy A picture is worth a thousand words. http://www.picturetrail.com/iconnections/ IP: Logged
jmac Non Member Posts: 2 From: Registered: Jun 2005	posted 06-02-2005 12:57 Hello to everyone, This is my first post, hoping to get some advise ASAP. I just read Rosi's situation and I couldn't believe it. Our situation is very similar, same place, the same players, same playbook... Here's our situation...we purchased our timeshare on Saturday, 21 May 2005. After a couple days of reflection and number crunching, we felt we made a mistake. I read our contract and found the sixth clause, which gives the buyer 5 days to cancel, yada, yada, yada. On the morning of Tuesday, 24 May 2005 we called Club Regina and asked to speak with our sales agent. We were told it was his day off. I explained our situation and said we wanted to speak to whoever was available regarding cancelling our contract. We were given two names, we said "thank you, we're on our way to submit our letter". We were very motivated to handle this while we were still in Cabo, and considering we were leaving later that day, we didn't have much time. When we arrived we were introduced to Mr. Bill Hall, who was represented to us as the sales manager. We told Bill what we wanted to do. Bill gave us the paper and the pen for which to write our contract termination letter. We dated and signed it, Bill dated and signed it, made two copies and returned a copy to us with an original signature. He was very nice and never challenged us about the cancellation. In fact, Bill encouraged us to reconsider time-share vacationing at a later date. We returned the Club Regina membership binder and RCI catalogs to Bill and left feeling like we had done everything required. Along comes Sunday, 29 May 2005. We receive a phone call from Kimberly, OMG!!! To say we were furious is an collosal understatement. We asked all the questions, why this, why that. We were told we couldn't cancel without incuring a 35% penalty. This phone call blind-sided us. Kimberly said she didn't want to see us lose 7 grand so she wanted to send us another offer. We told her to e-mail the specifics to us and we'll look them over. We told her we'd already stepped in one pile of dog doo, we weren't about to agree to anything over the phone. After we hung up, I got online and began to research our options. We found lots of resources and information that supported our position. I took notes and bookmarked several websites for future reference. Later that evening I e-mailed Kimberly back stating, essentially "thanks but no thanks" and that we are standing by our letter. I also provided a detailed explaination of our interpretation of the contract. I asked her why did Bill Hall accepted our letter if it wasn't valid, and ended the letter by asking her if our interpretation of the contract was incorrect, please explain in detail the correct interpretation and provide all documents necessary to support her interpretation. On Wednesday 1 June 2005, Kimberly called us, stating she had received our e-mail. She acknowledged that our request to cancel was within the 5 day period, but we didn't have a legal, valid reason for cancelling. In our cancellation letter we briefly outlined why we were cancelling, citing financial and length of contract reasons (41-years). In the e-mail, I stated we weren't alleging, mis-representation, failure to provide service, or fruad. Kimberly said that our reasons were not legally valid, that Club Regina would dispute our cancellation reasons and under the provisions of the 14th clause of our contract, the dispute would be resolved through court procedings. I mentioned the word "PROFECO". The tone of the conversation suddenly changed. Kimberly now said she would like to offer us another option. The offer on the table right now, is one week in either a studio or one bedroom unit, our choice. We pay for it out of monies we have already had charged to our cc for our membership. $1,400 for the one bedroom, $1,100 for the studio. The difference will be credited back to us. Our current membership contract will be voided and terminated. No obligation to attend another presentation. Use this offer within 2 years, excluding holiday periods. If we decide that we do want to purchase a timeshare after all, $800 would be credited towards that purchase. We are torn. If we engage the help of PROFECO, this could drag out for months. If her offer is genuine, we'll just spend a little more money on our next vacation than we normally would. We loved the property, anyone whose seen Regina Los Cabos will tell you it's drop-dead gorgeous. If I'm correct, as long as we exercised our rescission right within that 5 day period, there is no burden on our part to prove or otherwise justify any reason for requesting contract termination, and PROFECO should sustain our request. Kimberly is offering contract termination in exchange for a one week vacation. After this experience, think my wife and I are sufficiently innoculated against timeshares. NEVER AGAIN!! Not even at gunpoint! We are SO thankful we went the extra mile and delivered the rescission letter personally before we left. I can't imaging trying to handle this from home. Lots of well-informed people here, anyone care to offer some thoughts on how we should proceed? "With Caution" is a given... Thank You TUG for all the valuable information. Please help ASAP, Kimberly will come a'callin very soon!!! IP: Logged
Tom52 TUG Member Posts: 114 From: Naperville, IL USA Registered: Apr 2004	posted 06-02-2005 14:55 jmac, if they are waivering they know you are off the hook. Why pay a bit of a premium for your next vacation to these liars? I wouldn't even give them the time of day. Stick to your guns, get your money back and walk away from the deal a little more educated for the future. IP: Logged
iconnections TUG Member Posts: 542 From: sunny Southern California! - Laguna Surf, CA - MDSV-I, Palm Desert, CA - Maui Sunset, Maui, HI - Buganvilias, PV, Mexico - Grand Velas, NV, Mexico Registered: Sep 2003	posted 06-02-2005 15:38 I agree completely with Tom52. Be happy you were able to cancel your contract and if you have more questions, I would call Bill back. You can go to Mexico for a few hundred dollars per week to many nice resorts!!! ------------------ Emmy A picture is worth a thousand words. http://www.picturetrail.com/iconnections/ IP: Logged
jmac Non Member Posts: 2 From: Registered: Jun 2005	posted 06-02-2005 18:23 Thank you for your responses. Tom52, I tend to agree with you. If they do have us by the short hairs, I doubt we would've had the same conversations with Regina. Our only real concern at this point is if I am missing something. In virtually all of the examples I've read on this message board and on the web, people state they signed an illegal waiver of their 5 day right, or a mis-representation was made about some aspect of the contract, or they were just flat-out lied to. That's not the case for us. We simply had a change of heart after thinking about it for a couple days. Does anyone know if a PROFECO complaint requires an allegation of wrong-doing on the part of a timeshare operator, over and above just failing to recognize a properly executed 5 day rescission letter? I know what Regina wants, I know what the game is. Get us to agree to something, come down and enjoy the property, the amentities, the "fruits" of membership so-to-speak, in hopes we'll take another bite at the apple. Has anyone heard of people exercising the 5-day right "just because", get challenged by the timeshare operator, and then PROFECO stand in favor of the buyer and enforce the buyers request? Do we in fact have to have a legitimate reason beyond "just because"? I feel like we're playing "Let's make a deal". We can take Regina's offer, or we have what's behind door #3. With our luck, we'll get handed a "zonk" by PROFECO. Again, any input or advise is appreciated. Thank You. [This message has been edited by jmac (edited 06-02-2005).] IP: Logged
funtime TUG Member Posts: 114 From: Dallas, Texas USA Registered: Nov 2003	posted 06-04-2005 11:27 My sister and I sat through the Club Regina presentation and both of us are pretty sophisticated timesharers. These people were pros and I do not say that as a compliment. While it started enthusiasticcally and upbeat in the breakfeast room, by the time we got to the closer room it turned hard sell and it was hard to extricate ourselves. Even though we consistently said no, (to full year, every other year, studio, one bed, etc) I knew we were in a boiler room when the guy came back with champagne and popped the cork at our table with all other sales agents clapping. To the other twenty groups at other tables it sure looked like we were buying and one of the first of the group besides. We finally slunk out of there with our prizes. Later in the week we attended another timeshare presentation at the Hacienda del Mar and it was completely different - professional, low key and nice. We went home and bought a Hacienda off of ebay (hey we are tuggers aren't we?). In other words do not beat yourself up too much as these Club Regina people are pros!! IP: Logged
Karen G Moderator TUG Volunteer Posts: 3128 From: Bellevue, WA; own in Hawaii, Mexico, South Africa, Texas (RCI Pts.) Registered: Dec 2000	posted 06-04-2005 16:39 quote: Originally posted by jmac: Do we in fact have to have a legitimate reason beyond "just because"? Absolutely not. If the contract says you have a five-day right-of-rescission period, that's what you have. You don't have to justify anything. The contract gives you that option. IP: Logged
JanB TUG Member Posts: 1241 From: Sacramento, CA - Owner Kona Coast, Imperial Hawaii, Embassy Lake Tahoe; Port Pacific and Village Resort, Australia Registered: Dec 2000	posted 06-05-2005 00:06 And, I would be very suspicious of accepting her offer then finding out because I did, it "recinded my recision." Frankly, I would want them out of my pocket PERIOD. From our own experiences, a "reason" is not necesssary when you are in your 5 day recision period. It's there legally for you to have a "cooling off" period for a major purchase. ------------------ Be slow to criticize, quick to compliment. [This message has been edited by JanB (edited 06-05-2005).] IP: Logged
Zac495 TUG Member Posts: 474 From: Limerick, Pa Registered: Jul 2004	posted 06-05-2005 05:32 I would NOT agree to her offer. Besides the fact that there's no reason to pay premium for a vacation, but allowing her to keep money, she could twist it around and say that was a deposit for another timeshare. Stick to your guns. by the way, I totally understand why you feel timesharing is awful after what you've been through. However, it isn't! It's really wonderful. Stick around on TUG once you get through this and read for awhile. You may decide to buy something resale! No one on TUG ever pushes anything (except going and having fun on vacation!) ------------------ Cheers, Ellen IP: Logged

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