Author
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Topic: Please help!
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Stacey27 TUG MemberPosts: 2 From: Toronto, ON, Canada Registered: Nov 2003
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posted 11-24-2003 10:17
I am a single, Canadian woman who went down to Mexico for a week. My first night I stayed at Paradise Village in Nuevo Vallarta. The following morning, I went to a "90-minute" timeshare presentation and got roped into purchasing a timeshare. I immediately regretted it, but thought that there was nothing I could do until I returned home to Canada. Upon my return, my condo lawyer tells me that she cannot offer advice at all since the corporation is based in California and the sale took place in Mexico (and she's here in Toronto). I signed the documents in Mexico on Nov 15th. Is there anything I can do to get out of this purchase? Can I escape with having only paid the 25% that I put down on my credit card? The way I read the purchase agreement, I would owe them at least 50% of the purchase price before they would let me out. They told me verbally that there was a cooling off period, but then once I'd signed everything they told me that there wasn't? I'm not sure if this is under California or Mexico law since the corporation is Californian but the sale was in Mexico. If I cannot get out of the purchase, I need advice as to how I can go about selling my timeshare. I would appreciate any help anyone can offer.
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jellson TUG MemberPosts: 537 From: Montréal, Canada Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 11-24-2003 10:26
Stacey,Somewhere in your contract, it should say the amount of time you have to be able to cancel the purchase (recind).... I think some states allow for 3 days, others 7... I'm sure others will be able to help you more.... Best of luck, Jennifer ------------------ J. Ellson Writing & Editing IP: Logged |
Pila TUG MemberPosts: 104 From: Hayward, CA USA Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 11-24-2003 10:34
You should have cancelled the first moment you had any regrets. Even if California law applies, they will probably start the clock as of the 15th and the cooling off period has expired.You cannot sell and get back your money. The developer's price is much higher than what you can get on the resale market. You may be best off just chalking it up to experience and using it every year or exchanging it. If you use it yourself, then you do not have to worry about dues to II or RCI and the exchange fees. IP: Logged |
Heron TUG MemberPosts: 1521 From: Ont, Canada Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 11-24-2003 10:41
You could try contacting your credit card company immediately about the charge but I doubt that it will help - I'd still do it and hope for the best.Given that you signed on Nov 15th you are probably 2 days beyond the rescind date which would have likely been Saturday the 22nd - I don't know if there is an argument to be made that Saturday and Sunday weren't business days - I'd be faxing, emailing and registered mailing the cancellation documentation required as per your contract - read your contract and do everything required to rescind and do it now. IF (and it's a huge IF) you are eligible to still back out it probably only exists until today. You could try telling the credit card company that you wanted to rescind on Saturday but the office wasn't open. If you don't succeed with the first person, talk to their manager, and then their manager, cry, do whatever you have to. All the above are very long shots but I'd still try as you have nothing to lose. Selling is a non-starter. If you follow through and pay 100% you might be lucky to get back 20%-30% (or less) of what you paid. Good luck! IP: Logged |
Dave M Administrator TUG MemberPosts: 6646 From: Boston, MA Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 11-24-2003 14:04
Unfortunately, you signed the contract in Mexico, subject to Mexico law. You had five days within which to legally cancel your contract. Beyond that you're likely stuck. There is much available on this topic on the Internet. Here is a sampling from the U.S. State Department advice for travelers to Mexico: quote: American citizens also should exercise caution when considering time-share investments and be aware of the aggressive tactics used by some time-share sales representatives. Buyers should be fully informed and take sufficient time to consider their decisions before signing time-share contracts, ideally after consulting an independent attorney. They should resist pressure to sign a contract the very day that they see the model unit. Mexican law allows time-share purchasers five days to cancel the contract for unconditional and full reimbursement. U.S. citizens should never sign a contract that includes clauses penalizing the buyer who cancels within five days.
Your credit card company isn't likely to help you, because the timeshare company has a purchase document with your signature on it and there is no evidence that the timeshare company won't provide the timeshare that they promised. Thus, no fraud.So your best bet may be to seek legal help as to how to negotiate your way out of this and what the risks are, including possible damage to your credit record, if you just don't pay. There have been occasional reports here of collection agencies going after U.S. purchasers of Mexico timeshares. I'm not sure whether they venture into Canada. As stated above, selling is not an option. At least not without taking a bigger loss than paying the 50% that your contract apparently requires. Resale prices for most timeshares (including those in Mexico) are generally between 25% and 40% of original cost. So if you contracted to pay $12,000 for your week, you would likely be able to sell it for somewhere between $3,000 and $5,000. Hard to believe, but true. If it's any consolation, many of us here spent way more than we should have on our first timeshare by doing exactly as you did. Some of us did it again! So, if you find you're stuck, do as we have (and as Pila suggests). Plan to make the most of your timeshare by using it or by exchanging the annual use for timeshare weeks in other places you would like to visit.
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SteveH TUG MemberPosts: 495 From: Ottawa, Canada Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 11-24-2003 14:12
If they don't allow you to recind, send them another fax indicating that you feel obligated to let others know about your experience and that you will be starting a web site to that end. The site will also show others how to buy weeks at this resort at pricess of 1/3 or less than what you paid. The site will aslo have links to TUG and resale sites. It might just get you a refund. SteveIP: Logged |
GinGin TUG MemberPosts: 8680 From: Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 11-24-2003 15:19
Steve, this would be a waste of her valuable time. The resort would just laugh. Resorts hear intimidation tactics everyday, not just in Mexico, but all over the world. It goes in one ear and out the other after the rescission period is past. They have your signature on a contract, that's ALL they need.Dave, thanks for that post. I don't ever recall seeing that before. I hope this is archived in a place that can be easily found, or perhaps it should even be in buying and selling FAQs. ------------------ www.picturetrail.com password:gingin (see 14 timeshares we've visited, please lighten screen before viewing) IP: Logged |
rpsmason TUG MemberPosts: 156 From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Own at Geo, Trade Winds, Boambee Bay Registered: Sep 2003
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posted 11-24-2003 15:29
quote: Originally posted by Stacey27:
They told me verbally that there was a cooling off period, but then once I'd signed everything they told me that there wasn't?
Maybe someone else can comment on this statement, but this seems clear to me that she would have a case for cancelling this based on signing under false pretences. Regardless what the contract indicates in writing, if she was lied to during the presentation in order to get her to sign I believe this will invalidate the purchase. Personally, I suggest that you contact your credit card company and ask what their policy is. [This message has been edited by rpsmason (edited 11-24-2003).] IP: Logged |
GinGin TUG MemberPosts: 8680 From: Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 11-24-2003 16:40
95% of us are lied to in developer presentations, such as, "you can rent this unit for $3000 easily if you don't use it". Also, she didn't mention the words "lied to" in her post. She only mentioned that "she regretted" the purchase. BTW, she has lots of options for trying to get out of the purchase, but I don't think it's wise for us to get her hopes up about any of them, since they more than likely won't work, so in my opinion, and with the knowledge we have gleened from others concerning this same issue, it's best to be truthful and frank. ------------------ www.picturetrail.com password:gingin (see 14 timeshares we've visited, please lighten screen before viewing) IP: Logged |
Patri TUG MemberPosts: 1167 From: PA Registered: Feb 2003
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posted 11-24-2003 17:34
quote: Originally posted by Stacey27:
They told me verbally that there was a cooling off period, but then once I'd signed everything they told me that there wasn't?
That sounds like a lie to me. ------------------ Patri I'm ready to go, but it isn't time. Visit my website IP: Logged |
GinGin TUG MemberPosts: 8680 From: Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 11-24-2003 18:49
Well actually, it's what written in the contract that's the main issue, not what they told her verbally, because she can't prove what they told her verbally, but she can prove what's written in the contract.This is why people should go over any contract backwards and forwards and inside and outside before signing their name on the dotted line, especially for major purchases. When you sign your name on that dotted line they have you where they want you legally. ------------------ www.picturetrail.com password:gingin (see 14 timeshares we've visited, please lighten screen before viewing) IP: Logged |
Harry TUG MemberPosts: 373 From: Mesa, Arizona USA - Timesharing for 25 years -2 in AZ, 3 in Ca and 2 in HI Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 11-24-2003 19:40
Stacey: Kinda of Good news and bad news. The bad news is you signed a binding contract subject to what they call the statute of frauds. US law assumes that any time you have land involved the contract has to be in writing to prevent exactly what was told to you not to be questionable. Now the good news. You mention the developer is a California Corporation. They are subject to strict California Corporation Commission requirements as well as Department of Real Estate rules and regulations. Since you are dealing with a foreign country where the land laws are all screwed up, you need to find out what law controls. You need an attorney familiar with real estate foreign investment/development. Your condo attorney should be able to assist you in this regard. If you feel this is all too expensive and not worth the time, you bought a pretty nice place. Consider keeping it and remember your experience. It has happened to all of us. IP: Logged |
Wonka TUG MemberPosts: 1943 From: Homosassa, FL 34446 Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 11-25-2003 06:14
Dave M. -As usual, your information and advice can't be beat. This situation happens often. The buyer returns home, and "buyers remorse" occurs. Unfortunately, a 5-day recission period doesn't give the buyer enough time to return home and really think about their purchase in a neutral environment. That's unfortunate. I wish there was a better way to highlight the risks, etc., or to ensure buyer's think more about their timeshare purchase before signing the dotted line.
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TechnicalBard TUG MemberPosts: 13 From: Calgary, Canada Registered: Nov 2003
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posted 11-25-2003 11:48
This has recently happened to me too... unfortunately. I am tempted to accept it as a lesson learned, but there was one other little tidbit in my situation...When I signed the paperwork, I was told that because of a "deal" they were giving me, I had to waive the 5 day cooling off period... which I did by signing a piece of paper. When I had reconsiderations, I was stuck because I had waived my ability to cancel... But when i returned home, i discover that Mexican law considers such waivers to be fraudulent and not valid... so I got rooked into thinking I couldn't cancel at all... STUPID me. I am doing what little I can to hassle them, but I suspect I am stuck, much like Stacey27. MR in Canada
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Wonka TUG MemberPosts: 1943 From: Homosassa, FL 34446 Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 11-25-2003 14:04
MR -Your situation is very different. You might try to contact the Mexican Agency that regulates such transactions (Profeco?). Someone here should be able to provide you the correct contact. It's certainly worth a try. IP: Logged |
laerut TUG MemberPosts: 106 From: Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 12-08-2003 22:38
I was asked to sign a paper saying I could not rescind. When I found out this was illegal I wrote my credit card company (who did contact the resort, but did nothing) wrote the resort who said they would put my letter in my file, wrote the Texas Attorney who said they could do nothing, contacted the Timeshare Beat Ombudsman who I never heard from but I did notice that this company had been added to there list of problem Mexican timeshare companies,and contacted Profeco (the Mexican Government). I heard from Profeco after a few months, and they were actually able to help me. I finally got back 90 percent of my purchase. I think this was because I had the paper they illegally had me sign. Be sure to send copies of all supporting documents as well as the Timeshare Beat article. Go to this link. I hope the information will be helpful. www.thetimesharebeat.com/mex-fraud.htm ------------------ beach mom [This message has been edited by laerut (edited 12-09-2003).] IP: Logged |
tweety Non MemberPosts: 3 From: San Francisco, CA Registered: Dec 2003
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posted 12-17-2003 12:43
Hello, I also just found myself in the same situation. My husband and I purchased a timeshare on 12/13, and have been trying to cancel it since the 14th!!! We've called them, faxed and emailed them. At this point, they are trying to tell me that they can only receive a "request for a cancellation" that does not actually mean that the'll cancel the membership. I'm so upset because I'm still within the 5 day rescind period that we were told we had. But now we are being told that the only way that we'll be able to cancel is if we can prove that there was fraud. I think telling us that we have 5 days to cancel for any reason, and then saying that we have to prove fraud, IS actually fraud. Today is the 4th day since the transaction, we've already contacted our credit card, that's going to cancel the amount, and send us paperwork to dispute the charge... But can they really try and tell me that they won't cancel this for us... I guess I'm just sharing in our frustration, and I hope it works out for the best. But I'm also getting ready to write to Profeco and the State's attorney's generals office. I also just read an article that said that Trendwest (not the company I am dealing with) just lost a huge settlement in CA because they lied about the cancellation period and other deceptive tactics. I am ready to forward this to the company that I'm dealing with.. http://sanjose.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2003/10/27/daily44.html IP: Logged |
GinGin TUG MemberPosts: 8680 From: Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 12-17-2003 12:54
I need to have something clarified please? Why do these specific timeshare salesmen tell buyers they have 5 days to rescind, then make them sign a waiver at the end of the transaction saying they have no recission period after all?This is crazy and something should be done about this fraud of all frauds. Also, why would one sign a waiver when they had previously been told they had 5 days to rescind? This is confusing. ------------------ www.picturetrail.com password:gingin (see 14 timeshares we've visited, please lighten screen before viewing) IP: Logged |
laerut TUG MemberPosts: 106 From: Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 12-18-2003 09:24
This is the name and phone number of the person I dealt with at Profeco. I would call him and tell him the situation. Israel Gallegos 011 5255 5211 1723 Also, check out the post "URGENT! Mayan Palace in Cancun" below. I believe there is a suggestion there for a way you can send something similar to registered mail to Mexico. It would be very helpful for you to have a receipt of some kind showing that your request to rescind has been delivered.IP: Logged |
musictom TUG MemberPosts: 234 From: Manteca, CA, USA Registered: Sep 2002
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posted 12-20-2003 15:41
quote: Originally posted by GinGin: I need to have something clarified please? Why do these specific timeshare salesmen tell buyers they have 5 days to rescind, then make them sign a waiver at the end of the transaction saying they have no recission period after all?This is crazy and something should be done about this fraud of all frauds. Also, why would one sign a waiver when they had previously been told they had 5 days to rescind? This is confusing.
Here's how it worked in our situation (Mayan Palace)After getting worked for a couple of hours, my wife and I settled on a two week t/s for a great, once in a lifetime price. As the salesman was bringing us the contract, his supervisor came over and told us about an even better, once in three lifetimes deal! He would be able to sell us a property that a previous customer had just traded in. They were moving into a larger T/S, and now this one was available to sell. It was twice the number of weeks, at only a few more thousand dollars. The only hitch was, since it had already been sold once, the five day cooling off period had already been applied to this particular transaction. They politely explained that the rescission period only applies once per timeshare. Of course, we all know that everybody who buys from Mayan Palace ends up buying one of these "previously owned" units. Pretty slick, eh? tom IP: Logged |
musictom TUG MemberPosts: 234 From: Manteca, CA, USA Registered: Sep 2002
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posted 12-20-2003 15:44
quote: Originally posted by musictom: Originally posted by GinGin: I need to have something clarified please? Why do these specific timeshare salesmen tell buyers they have 5 days to rescind, then make them sign a waiver at the end of the transaction saying they have no recission period after all?This is crazy and something should be done about this fraud of all frauds. Also, why would one sign a waiver when they had previously been told they had 5 days to rescind? This is confusing.
Here's how it worked in our situation (Mayan Palace)After getting worked for a couple of hours, my wife and I settled on a two week t/s for a great, once in a lifetime price. As the salesman was bringing us the contract, his supervisor came over and told us about an even better, once in three lifetimes deal! He would be able to sell us a property that a previous customer had just traded in. They were moving into a larger T/S, and now this one was available to sell. It was twice the number of weeks, at only a few more thousand dollars. The only hitch was, since it had already been sold once, the five day cooling off period had already been applied to this particular transaction. They politely explained that the rescission period only applies once per timeshare. So when you go in to sign your life away, one of the things they have you sign is a waiver, stating that you understand that, due to the "special" circumstances of this sale, you waive your rights to the five day cooling off period. In our minds, it was a small price to pay compared to getting this fantastic, benevolent, out of this world deal! Unfortunately, we, as most everyone else, found out about TUG just a wee bit too late! Of course, we all know that everybody who buys from Mayan Palace ends up buying one of these "previously owned" units. Pretty slick, eh? tom [This message has been edited by musictom (edited 12-20-2003).] IP: Logged |
GinGin TUG MemberPosts: 8680 From: Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 12-20-2003 17:37
Gosh, I'm appalled. People need to get in contact with Profeco (or whatever that entity is) and the Mexican government in droves about this situation, and I thought American timeshare salesmen were slick. This is out and out fraud.------------------ www.picturetrail.com password:gingin (see 14 timeshares we've visited, please lighten screen before viewing) IP: Logged |
TechnicalBard TUG MemberPosts: 13 From: Calgary, Canada Registered: Nov 2003
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posted 12-23-2003 18:35
As I mentioned above, Mayan Palace Nuevo Vallarta pulled this scam on me in November. I did not discover that the five day waiver period was fraudulent until I returned to Canada and was past the five day period. However, I decided I would do my best. I contacted Mayan Palace by email. Someone from Puerto Vallarta (one of the sales people I was suckered by) called me on the telephone. They said they could cancel it, but I would have to forfeit my 25% downpayment plus the "closing costs" since fees and commissions had been paid by Mayan Palace... I told them I intended to do what I had to to get out of the deal. They told me I could do so (forfeiting downpayment) by sending all paperwork back to them (parent company Desarralo Marina Vallarta) in Houston, TX. I contacted PROFECO by email - and they responded in two days. They told me to send a letter to DMV's offices in Houston, TX, with all the documentation I had. I was to retain a copy, and send a copy of all the documentation, a copy of my cancellation letter to Desarralo Marina Vallarta, and a cover letter to PROFECO in Mexico City explaining the situation. They told me to include in the cancellation letter to Mayan Palace that I had already talked to PROFECO and confirmed that the waiver Mayan Palace made me sign was not valid under Mexican Law. I did as PROFECO recommended. I sent the paperwork to Desarralo Marina Vallarta in Houston by registered mail, and the stuff to Mexico city by regular mail. About two weeks after I mailed the paperwork, I received a very terse phone call from Puerto Vallarta. A man I had never talked to before said they would cancel my contract and refund all of my money. He said I would have no further obligation to Mayan Palace or Desarralo Marina Vallarta. I don't think my other paperwork likely even reached PROFECO yet, but something got DMV excited... He hung up the phone before I could demand they send me something in writing. I was suspicious until today, when the refund appeared on my credit card statement (online). Every last US dollar of it. Only problem is I lost some in exchange rate changes... oh well - I think I got out of this pretty well. IP: Logged |
tweety Non MemberPosts: 3 From: San Francisco, CA Registered: Dec 2003
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posted 01-05-2004 12:32
Hello, After several calls to the timeshare company, they finally faxed us a confirmation that they cancelled our contract per our request, and that we would be refunded shortly. Phew! Next time we'll definately do more research before purchasing something like this.
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mvs Non MemberPosts: 2 From: Toronto Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 01-06-2004 11:23
I bought a Fairfield contract in 2002 in Canada (105000 points every odd year). And as well as Stacey I am very disappointed with it. Lots of strings attached to this membership, the costs of this “tremendous deal” is much higher then a cost of regular vacation package, maintenance fee has gone up 50% since I joined the club, etc… In simple words so far it was one big source of frustration. Apparently I got hooked. But the life is a chain of the gains and losses. Now I am wondering what options I might use to get rid of the contract. I assume I can stop paying maintenance fees and Fairfield will cancel my contract. In this case I will loose all money I put in the contract ($14000 Canadian dollars), but I will not pay the fees and deal with this twisted company and its freaking rules and regulations. Also I hope I can sell the contract and at least partly recover my losses. Could somebody advise me on what to do and when I can sell my contract (if it is worth to bother)? According to my research many people became victims of illegal sales practices, where sales reps do everything to make you sign (event shamelessly lie). How come that the re-sale value of timeshares is much less then the cost of the original contract? Why this industry is thriving so long when there are so many disappointed customers? Thanks in advance for your advice
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