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DougKaya

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From: Concord, CA Kauai-Marriott Marriott-Marbella Mount Amanzi
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 06-01-2005 12:35     Click Here to See the Profile for DougKaya   Click Here to Email DougKaya     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post A Reply
For all of us, there will come a day when "traveling" is no longer an option

So.... when we sell our timeshare (at a loss) can we deduct the lost on our tax return.

Since I'm almost sure we'd have to declare a profit should we sell for a gain... I feel we should be able to declare a loss.

Is my reasoning "ka-ka" ???

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BocaBum99

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posted 06-01-2005 14:59     Click Here to See the Profile for BocaBum99   Click Here to Email BocaBum99     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post A Reply
Yes.

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wfillion

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From: Stafford Springs, CT, USA
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posted 06-01-2005 15:15     Click Here to See the Profile for wfillion   Click Here to Email wfillion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post A Reply
If you sell for a profit (miracle of miracles) you pay capital gains, sell at a loss your screwed. Unless maybe you can convince the IRS you bought as an investment. Only property rented for 15 days or more is normally eligible for capital loss. Second homes and alike rented fewer can not claim loss.

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Dave M
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posted 06-01-2005 15:18     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave M   Click Here to Email Dave M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post A Reply
Generally, no taxable loss. See this past thread - http://www.tug1.net/tugbbs1/Forum1/HTML/007660.html

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Dave M
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posted 06-01-2005 15:25     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave M   Click Here to Email Dave M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post A Reply
What wfillion says with respect to the 15-day rule is generally not true. I believe he is presuming that the "vacation home" tax rules would apply to treat the timeshare as a personal asset.

In fact, as discussed starting with my first post of 11-20-2004 in this linked thread, timeshares generally will not be treated as vacation home properties.

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DougKaya

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From: Concord, CA Kauai-Marriott Marriott-Marbella Mount Amanzi
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posted 06-01-2005 21:48     Click Here to See the Profile for DougKaya   Click Here to Email DougKaya     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post A Reply
Thanks to all who responded !

What, pray tell, would be tax consequences if I donated same to a non-profit charity ???

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Dave M
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posted 06-02-2005 05:38     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave M   Click Here to Email Dave M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post A Reply
You can get some answers to the donation question in the tax article from the Advice section.

However, keep in mind that the tax deduction for making a donation would be equal to fair market value. Fair market value in your hands is the amount that you could sell it for to a willing buyer. That means the resale value, not an inflated developer sales price.

Thus, assuming an honest approach, selling should mean more in your pocket than donating. By way of example, assume you can sell a timeshare for $4,000 and that you are in the top (35%) federal tax bracket. If you sell, you'll have $4,000, perhaps reduced by selling costs of, let's say, $500, for a net of $3,500. If you donate, you'll save $1,400 (35% X $4,000). If the donor's state of residence allows charitable donation tax deductions, that could alter the results, but not by much.

Normally, I would say that $3,500 in my pocket is worth more than $1,400 any day. However, charitable motives might offset that and make the donation personally rewarding.

Also note that if you claim a charitable donation deduction of more than $5,000 in connection with the donation, you'll need to get a formal appraisal that meets IRS guidelines. Getting a qualified appraisal can cost a fair amount.

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bogey21

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From: fort worth, texas usa
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posted 06-02-2005 10:59     Click Here to See the Profile for bogey21   Click Here to Email bogey21     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post A Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Dave M:
...assuming an honest approach, selling should mean more in your pocket than donating.

I generally agree. I think the exception is where you purchased the Week cheap, say for something like $1,500 2 or 3 years ago and it looks like it might sell for around $500. Personally, I would donate it to charity; use $1,500 as my deduction; save the selling costs; and have less hassle. Number One, I doubt that the IRS would even look at the deduction and Number Two, if they did, I doubt that they would challange the valuation. But then I'm no tax accountant either.

The place where this works best is where the selling costs and the selling price are pretty close.

[This message has been edited by bogey21 (edited 06-02-2005).]

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Dave M
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posted 06-02-2005 12:51     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave M   Click Here to Email Dave M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post A Reply
That's not an exception, that's the dishonest approach. What someone paid for a timeshare some time ago has no bearing, under the tax laws, on the allowable deduction.

Thus, in your example, if you claimed a tax deduction for $1,500, knowing that the likely selling price is $500, you would be cheating. As Steve Nelson asked yesterday, how much money does it take for someone to "dangle in front of you and get you to act out a lie in exchange for the money?"

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DougKaya

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From: Concord, CA Kauai-Marriott Marriott-Marbella Mount Amanzi
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 06-02-2005 16:16     Click Here to See the Profile for DougKaya   Click Here to Email DougKaya     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post A Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Dave M:
You can get some answers to the donation question in the tax article from the Advice section...... However, keep in mind that the tax deduction for making a donation would be equal to fair market value...........

Thanks Dave M !
Very concise answer

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bogey21

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From: fort worth, texas usa
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posted 06-02-2005 22:58     Click Here to See the Profile for bogey21   Click Here to Email bogey21     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post A Reply
Dave - I think your choice of words (Dishonest/Cheating)is a little harsh. One reason I think so is that when you are dealing with low priced timeshares substantially similar weeks might sell for $500 one day and $1,500 a week later. Or one might sell for $500 on Ebay and $1,500 in a private transaction. Generally (not always, I admit) weeks that originally sold for say $10,000 purchased 2 or 3 years ago for $1,500 probably remain worth close to the $1,500 all things being equal.

Actually the above was not really my point which I obviously didn't state very well. What I was trying to say is that the tax recoupment from donating low priced weeks to charity may well approach the proceeds from a sale when you take into account (1) the time value of money; (2) selling costs; and (3) possibly laying out another MF which actually may equal 33%, 50% or maybe even 100% of the value of the week.

I think I know something about cheap weeks. I currently own six of them purchased for a total cost of just under $6,000. I use 5 of them and trade the other. They are in nice shape and have location (3 are beach front). Truth is if there is cheating involved, I'm probaly cheating myself using my cost (which I have done 4 times) when donating an unwanted low cost week to charity.

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Brett5

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From: Newport News Va.
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posted 06-03-2005 11:14     Click Here to See the Profile for Brett5   Click Here to Email Brett5     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post A Reply
it may be a question of semantics or could be that DaveM knows that you could once donate a car to charity and use your best estimate of "Fair market value" for that clunker which (not surprisingly) tended to be on the high side. Congress eventually changed the rules so that the contribution for a car was is only what the charity sells it for, not an inflated estimate by the owner!

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camachinist

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From: Kerman, CA
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posted 06-03-2005 21:20     Click Here to See the Profile for camachinist     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote Post A Reply
As my dad used to say "A businessman's job is to bend the rules, and it's his accountant's and lawyer's job to keep him out of jail and clean up the mess". Dad was a CPA. When I listen to Dave, I hear a lot of dear old dad

IMO, if one is going to get creative with the tax code, there are many less obvious ways to do it. Unless one is talking big bucks, personally, I don't think it's worth the risk. I've seen business colleagues die fighting big brother over taxes. Money is a cruel master.

Pat

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