posted 08-19-2003 19:56               

quote:

---

Originally posted by buff:
I am one Tugger who can't understand how many non members solicate advice, help that may cost money from another source or save you thousands regarding buying, rental timeshares. Is 15 dollars too much to invest. How do you justfy getting involved on Tug for years without paying your dues? An non member with over a hundred posts since june asks Ed Bott, A computer genious for computer advice which would cost something somewhere else. I tell him to pay up and a volunteer deletes my response. I rarely get pissed off but I have save Tuggers hundreds of dollars doing different favors. Someone tell me what is the big deal shelling out 15 dollars especially if you come on Tug and start asking and asking. Buff/Scott

---

I agree . If a person is going to use TUG on a regular basis then it would seem appropriate that they contribute to the maintenance of the site. I don't really feel that it is because others offer valuable advise but rather simply because there is a cost associated with any endeavor and we should all help support this particular one. I for one find the information here invaluable and I am continuously amazed at the benifits of tuning into TUG. I look forward to renewing and paying the small amount required to have access to so much information and so many points of view. JMO

Mike

posted 08-19-2003 21:15               

TUG is a free site. Period. Nonmembers are welcome without any restrictions. Anyone who wants to become a member can do so. If they choose to join , they can access members-only sections that include reviews and sightings. If they choose not to join, they are welcome to participate as much as they want in the BBS, and it is expected that other TUG members will be gracious and not apply unwelcome pressure.

As for me, I appreciate you looking out for me, but I don't need the help.I do not look at a person's TUG member status before answering a computer question. If I wanted to make money at this, I would set up a 900 number. I haven't. Yet.

Finally, as always, if you have a problem with a moderator or administrator's action, please have the courtesy to contact one of us by email.

Thanks,

posted 08-19-2003 21:51               

Publicly demanding that someone explain why they have chosen not to join TUG is not right. That is their decision, and they do not have to explain or justify it, and they shouldn't have to put up with pressure from anyone to join if they don't want to. If you want to tell someone all the good things that come with being a TUG member, that's great. But putting pressure on people for doing what they are allowed to do is not right.

posted 08-19-2003 22:01               

quote:

---

Originally posted by ou812:
Sounds like you want a closed shop or a private club, members only. So how does one test drive the site ? Perhaps an unfriendly attitude is just as bad a turn-off. Everyplace has their problem with freeloaders and it appears you have to be careful what you say or how you say it here. Maybe that too could be a membership turn-off. Maybe some of us need time to decide whether to join or not. Maybe someday I'll ask a question and get no answer due to the cold shoulder attitude and then I'll know what to do.

---

As I read the origional post I thought the question was addressed to those who are more than casual visitors to TUG. The poster simply asked why people who have been utilizing TUG for years don't contribute to its financial existance (in the puny amount of $15). Yes it's a free site but that does not mean people have to take advantage of the free access forever. When I first discoved TUG I too used it freely. When I realized that I was using the site more and more I thought it appropriate to join. I agree with ED that part of the reason for joining was to access the different features available to members only. However, a part of me wanted to join so that I could in a small way help support a web site that obviously required significant work to develope and to continue to maintain. The thing that really gets me is that there is so much rancor when people ask questions. Even if we disagree why must we express our disagreements in such confrontational manners. It was pointed out to me by Fern (in the "political" boards that this trend was getting out of hand and so I left those boards and have tried to "keep it civil" I sense the same tension here in this discussion. It's too bad. JMO

Mike

posted 08-19-2003 22:08               

Demanding that people explain why they choose not to join implies that they are doing something wrong, and they are not. Calling a nonmember a "freeloader" is a personal attack. It's not acceptable.

I appreciate that some people feel such a devotion to TUG that they want to look out for its financial well-being by encouraging people to join. That's great. But the way to do that is to show people what they are missing by not joining. Making them feel guilty or ashamed for exercising their rights is not the way to make TUG a healthy, inclusive community.

Ed

posted 08-19-2003 23:06               

Mike

PS: Thanks for all that you do here at TUG. Believe it or not it is appreciated.
[This message has been edited by doggiesdad (edited 08-19-2003).]

posted 08-19-2003 23:23               

You're right, the issue of nonmembers being pressured to join up does have a history that you probably aren't aware of. I have tried to summarize TUG's policy here, as directly as possible, based on those previous discussions. Sorry if you see that as rancor. It's not.

posted 08-19-2003 23:23            

Couldn't agree with you more. We're talking $15.00 here. There are exceptions,(i.e. bootleg and theresa) but people who want a review of a resort and they have 50+ posts? There are givers and takers, be a giver.

posted 08-20-2003 04:29               

quote:

---

Originally posted by ou812:
Sounds like you want a closed shop or a private club, members only. So how does one test drive the site ?

---

Took me about 10 minutes of "test driving" this site to come to the conclusion that's it worth the $15 membership. For some it took longer.

[Personal remarks deleted.]

------------------
Say "Thank You" to our service men and women:
http://www.defendamerica.mil/nmam.html

posted 08-20-2003 05:40            

I was a non-member once, and I got harrassed for it by some members of Tug. I didn't ask questions, I gave advice to people who didn't know timesharing. It really didn't bother me that I was harrassed by members (I was used to it), but it did bother the moderators, which is their job to defend anyone on Tug against any form of harrassment, so they came to my defense.

All members of Tug should email Bill Rogers if they are NOT content with his rules. The moderators are just doing their jobs by deleting posts that do not apply to the rules and laws of Tug.

posted 08-20-2003 06:09               

I don't think Buff/Scott is challenging the TUG rules or the moderators. He is asking non-members why they choose to stay non-members when they are obviously visiting/using the bbs on a regular basis. He is not *demanding* anything from anyone. No one has to read this thread or respond to it. And now that it is moved to Features, probably no one will.

I've been a TUG volunteer for years, many of them as a moderator. Now I hesitate to even read most Lounge threads because I don't need the aggravation. I don't think there is an emoticon that adequately expresses my sadness.

posted 08-20-2003 06:47               

[This message has been edited by buff (edited 08-20-2003).]

posted 08-20-2003 07:38               

quote:

---

Originally posted by EdB:
Mike, nothing would make me happier than to see all the political posts removed from the Lounge. But that's not the policy, and so the moderators work very hard to make sure that these discussions stay within the bounds of civility. You're right, there are people who practically live in the Lounge and seem to revel in makng it an unpleasant place. It takes an extraordinary amount of effort to police the Lounge, and it can be exhausting and dispiriting.

You're right, the issue of nonmembers being pressured to join up does have a history that you probably aren't aware of. I have tried to summarize TUG's policy here, as directly as possible, based on those previous discussions. Sorry if you see that as rancor. It's not.

Ed

---

Ed,

Thanks again. I can appreciate that you guys have a tough job at times. I don't really have a dog in this particular fight so I will leave it be. I do think though that after 25 post and some of them not so pleasant you might admit to seeing just a little "rancor"?? Hey, life is short and we got to learn to get along! I got a great idea... Why doesn't everyone take a trip and relax and maybe later we could talk about where we went and what we did!!!! Now there's a thought.

Mike

posted 08-20-2003 07:52               

quote:

---

Originally posted by dlsalva:

...but people who want a review of a resort and they have 50+ posts?

---

If people want information that is only available once you have paid to become a member then obviously they should pay up and not ask members to provide that information.

Also any member who provides this information to non members is doing this board and all its paying members a dis-service.

Access to the public areas is just that and as long as people observe the rules of the boards I have no problem responding to anybody.

------------------
Regards