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Author	Topic: Continental Trust offers to buy t/s's - Scam?
JohnnyO TUG Member Posts: 1725 From: Registered: APR 2001	posted 05-23-2001 09:28 Well, my first ad on TUG just generated a (sales scam) call on a t/s I have for sale. I am sure more Tuggers have gotten the same calls if they called from my ad. Does anyone know about Continental Trust, Multiple Referral Services, and Globe Appraisal Services? Continental called me and said they their trust buys t/s's and wanted to buy my week. Of course, they needed to follow the "trusts" guidlines, rules, and regulations by requiring an appraisal from an approved company recommended through a third party. They also said that they pay what the appraisal dictates the unit is worth which may be more then what I am asking and that they are required to pay the appraised price by law. So they can't be involved in the appraisal as it is a "conflict of interest" but they will pay for all closing fees including the appraisal when they buy my unit. Sounds to good to be true and I am sure it is. They will not get a $399 appraisal out of me. I have heard of this type of scam before. Are you all getting similar calls? Does anyone know more about this group? Is it the scam I think it is? Does anyone have any experience with this group? Is there a TUG thread for this kind of thing? ------------------ John We get to vote once every two years. Big money votes several times every day. Who really influences our politicians?
Duane TUG Volunteer Posts: 236 From: Punta Gorda, FL, USA; Paradise Beach Villas, Aruba Registered: DEC 2000	posted 05-23-2001 11:36 While I have never heard those particular names, I applaud your good sense to view it as a potential scam. The verbiage you got sounds an awful lot like all the other scams which have been uncovered.
Dale W unregistered TUG Volunteer Posts: 236 From: Punta Gorda, FL, USA; Paradise Beach Villas, Aruba Registered: DEC 2000	posted 05-23-2001 12:11 I received a call from from Continental Trust today and have the same questions and concerns you expressed....Also, if there is a very low-cost (even free?) appraisal from any source (Continental didn't state that it had to be from the services they mentioned)...then we could test the system. Even if this isn't a 'get the seller to pay for an appraisal' scam...Continental will likely make a 'low-ball' offer or none at all. I'll be watching the TUG BBS for responses to your posting.. Dale W
JohnnyO TUG Member Posts: 1725 From: Registered: APR 2001	posted 05-23-2001 12:25 The lady I talked to at Continental said they had to go by one of their approved appraisers price, which would likely be more then what I was asking for, no matter what. She made it sound too good. The first red flag. And I have heard of this type of scam before so don't fall for it. My suspicion is that they will try to make you think you will get some good money for your unit so you will be sucked in and pay for the appraisal. Then they wont even buy your timeshare at all. Here is a web site that talks about timeshare scams such as this and some notes from the moderator. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnwantedTimeshares/messages Modrator's Note: This is an obvious offshoot of the RIT/SAB scam that is under indictment. The investigator is Joseph.P. Kleinberg- Chief Investigator U.S. Attorney's Office c/o U.S. Postal Inspector 425 Summer St. 7th. Floor Boston, MA. 02210-1736. The search for victims has been underway for just a few months and more than 20,000 victims have detailed appraisal fees sent to numerous companies as a prerequisite for the sale of timeshares to either Swiss American Bank or Resort Investment Trust. These two companies are located at 4 Regent Center West P.O. Box F-42474 Freeport, Grand Bahamas, The Bahamas. Complaints for lost fees should be detailed, copied and mailed with all supporting paperwork including appraisals, letters of intent and /or correspondence to Joseph.P. Kleinberg-Chief Investigator U.S. Attorney's Office c/o U.S. Postal Inspector 425 Summer St. 7th. Floor Boston, MA. 02210-1736. For victims to share information about the activities and dealings with Swiss American Bank/Resort Investment Trust and to prevent others from having similar experiences an open to the public eGroup has been started. Visit or join at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RITPostings. The appraisal companies will be detailed in postings and investigation updates will be posted here as well as questions answered ,time permitting. If you prefer reply to this message for an invitation. Swiss American-Resort Investment Trust Refunds Reported About 30 reports have been received from members of the group about credit card companies that have issued charge-back/refunds against the "appraisal" companies used in the Swiss American- Resort Investment Trust resale sales pitch. Many members have reported how easy it was to get refunds after they furnished their sponsor banking institution the information from the Internet. That information is linked below and seems to serve as sufficient reason to for the credit card companies to charge-back the merchant account of the appraisal companies when printed out and sent to them. The federal law that has made the credit card companies so helpful in refunding charges in cases of fraud/misrepresentation is the Fair Credit Billing Act also linked. Documents that seem to help: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/credit/fcb.htm http://www.vacation-realty.com/tstodayswiss.html http://www.dbf.state.fl.us/news4698.html http://www.tug2.net/advice/SAB.htm http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnwantedTimeshares/message/228 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnwantedTimeshares/message/238 The complete story is printed on our timeshare owners egroup website. This is the group that gathered the information I originally presented to you and continues to help owners sell their timeshare without up-front fees or scams I invite you to visit read the entire article at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnwantedTimeshares/message/303 BOSTON, Feb. 13 /PRNewswire/ -- Four Massachusetts residents and six Florida men have been named in a fifty-count indictment for running an appraisal fraud scam and money laundering operation that in a four year period defrauded in excess of $12 million from approximately 20,000 victims nationwide. United States Attorney Donald K. Stern and Kenneth Jones, Inspector in Charge of the U.S. Postal Inspection Service in Boston, announced today that among those indicted by the grand jury were the ringleader of the operation, DONALD L. GONCZY, age 66, a resident of Florida, along with his son, SCOTT GONCZY, age 41, his daughter, JILL GONCZY, age 36, and his son-in-law, MICHAEL UPTON, age 43, all of whom live in Hyannis. JOHN HANDEL, age 50, of Hyannis and Nottingham, New Hampshire, was also named in the indictment, along with five other Florida residents: VINCENT COREY, age 65, of 10140 Marlin Circle, Boca Raton, Florida; EDWARD LONEY, age 58, of 4661 NW Second Avenue, Boca Raton, Florida; BUCK SHELTON, age 52, of 5622 Stull Avenue, Orlando, Florida; PETER TRAIN, age 57, of 750 Locke Road, Deerfield Beach, Florida; and S. JOEL EPSTEIN, age 53, of 621 NE 26th Avenue, Pompano Beach, Florida. CONTACT: Samantha Martin of the U.S. Attorney's Office, 617-748-3139 Restitution is part of this case so be sure to get your paperwork in. The U.S Attorney's office from Boston has established a toll-free message recording for the victims of RIT/SAB. It gives the address of Joseph.P. Kleinberg-Chief Investigator U.S. Attorney's Office c/o U.S. Postal Inspector 425 Summer St. 7th. Floor Boston, MA. 02210-1736.It also says send a short letter explanation of your dealing with RIT/SAB and ask for a "Timeshare Owner Questionaire". The questionaire is new information and may get sent automatically when you send your packet but I do not know. If any of you got one automatically please respond so the rest do not have to write for one. The message states they do not have resources to talk to all the victims and the message has not changed since Feb.14, 2001. Updates on the status may be posted later. The number is 888-221-6023 Ext 2. ------------------ John We get to vote once every two years. Big money votes several times every day. Who really influences our politicians?
beckyj unregistered TUG Member Posts: 1725 From: Registered: APR 2001	posted 05-23-2001 18:01 I also received a telephone call and a fax from Continental Trust Incorporated. In order to receive a written offer, they require copies of the deed, original contract, appraisal and a copy of the receipt for the most current maintenance fee. I would also appreciate knowing if anyone has any experience with this company....sounds to good to be true! Would it make sense to contact the Better Business Bureau in Ft.Lauderdale, Fla?
mrkigodwgs Non Member Posts: 5 From: Everett,WA,USA Registered: MAR 2001	posted 05-23-2001 23:32 I too have recieved a call by continental trust incorportaed, ft. lauderdale, fl. I do have an inquiry filed with the better business bureau there. I will not give any money for an appraisel and the promise of a "fair market offer" I have no trouble renting my timeshare ski week in whistler and will only sell for a reasonable price.I would also only deal in person or via a lawyer or reputable escrow company. this has "scam" written all over it. i would never give out personal information over the phone unless i was the one initiating the call. I would certainly not fax copies of contracts and deeds which contain personal information to a complete stranger!!!!!!!!!!
needavacation TUG Member Posts: 514 From: Wisconsin Registered: APR 2001	posted 05-24-2001 04:23 The deed is public record. It's not like you're sending information they can't get anyway. I still wouldn't do it either to a company like that, but sometimes people think of deeds as "personal" when really they aren't.
JohnnyO TUG Member Posts: 1725 From: Registered: APR 2001	posted 05-24-2001 08:16 I wouldn't rely on the BBB. They are known for not taking any real action until a company really gets way out of hand. The same companies that they "monitor" are the same one's that pay the BBB's bills. I would not give much weight to what they had to say or more importantly what they wont say about member companies. ------------------ John We get to vote once every two years. Big money votes several times every day. Who really influences our politicians?
JohnnyO TUG Member Posts: 1725 From: Registered: APR 2001	posted 05-24-2001 13:42 Stage 3. First stage: Continental Trust calls. See post above. Second Stage: Mulitiple Referral Services calls and recommends and appraisal company. Promises to send fax with three appraisal companies. No fax as of today. Stage 3: Well today I got the call from the appraisal company which was referred by the referal company recommended by Continental Trust. Paul Kirk of Globe Appraisals called and confirmed all my information and said he has all he needs to appraise my timeshare if I send him $389. He told me the that Continental Trust will reimburse me for it when they buy my timeshare and close the sale. Well I asked him for more information on his company. He said that he cannot get that to me until next week because they just moved offices. Also said that is why he did not have a toll free number. I asked for his address and phone which he gave me. I told him I wanted more information on his company before I would send him any money. Of course he takes credit cards, AMEX, Visa, M/C, and Discover. He said he would fax me more information on his company. Will keep you updated. ------------------ John We get to vote once every two years. Big money votes several times every day. Who really influences our politicians?
MikeS TUG Member Posts: 2182 From: Ont., Cda Registered: DEC 2000	posted 05-24-2001 14:25 John The link you have quoted earlier does not seem to work. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RITPostings. It says there is no such website. Could you please verify ! Mike
Makai Guy Administrator TUG Volunteer Posts: 5396 From: Aiken, SC Prefer to be: Hawaii Registered: DEC 2000	posted 05-24-2001 15:08 There IS no such website. Drop the period from the end. This is 100% along the model used by Resort Investment Trust / Swiss American Bank, for which they have all been indicted. If this outfit continues to follow this tried-and-true model, once you pay your "appraisal fee" you'll never hear from them again, unless you REALLY push them. Most people don't have the stamina to stick with it long enough. If you really hammer at them you might then get a purchase offer at something like 10-15% of your "appraised value". When questioned they point out that they offered to buy your unit "based on" your appraisal, not "at" your appraisal. The offer they make is so low nobody takes them up on it. Please take the time to read the TUG advice section article on timeshare appraisals. ------------------ Doug Wilson, "The Makai Guy" -- BBS Administrator / TUG Area Rep, Hawaii makaiguy@iname.com -- You might enjoy a visit to my North Shore Kauai website [This message has been edited by Makai Guy (edited 05-24-2001).]
snelson TUG Volunteer Posts: 6520 From: Belly-View, WA. Owner: Embassy Poipu (floating); Winners Circle (Week 52), Raintree Vacation Club; Club Regina Registered: DEC 2000	posted 05-24-2001 16:24 quote: Originally posted by Makai Guy: There IS no such website. Drop the period from the end. It doesn't work even with the period dropped from the end. ------------------ Steve Nelson Give a man a fish and you will feed him for one day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat all day and drink beer.
somerville TUG Member Posts: 1419 From: Vienna, VA, USA: 7 Mile Beach Resort, Grand Cayman, WK 51; Beach Quarters, VA Beach, WK 26; Equivest Points; Barony Beach, HHI; Hanalei Bay Resort Registered: FEB 2001	posted 05-24-2001 18:42 You have to register and join each Yahoo Group, and login each visit. It probably sets a cookie. That may be why the link doesn't work for you.
snelson TUG Volunteer Posts: 6520 From: Belly-View, WA. Owner: Embassy Poipu (floating); Winners Circle (Week 52), Raintree Vacation Club; Club Regina Registered: DEC 2000	posted 05-24-2001 19:58 I don't think you have to join each group to access a site, though you probably do need to be signed up at Yahoo. For example, I can access UnwantedTimeshare group, even though I have not joined it. ------------------ Steve Nelson Give a man a fish and you will feed him for one day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat all day and drink beer.
Makai Guy Administrator TUG Volunteer Posts: 5396 From: Aiken, SC Prefer to be: Hawaii Registered: DEC 2000	posted 05-25-2001 06:01 No, a search of Yahoo discussion groups comes up empty when looking for RITPostings. Maybe there was one earlier that has been discontinued, or maybe the search engine is just flakey. I know I've had trouble finding groups that DO exist before. MikeS said there was no such WEBSITE, and he's right - there are no web addresses with periods at the end. If he'd said no such GROUP I'd have looked further. Each group can set its own parameters re whether one must be registered as a member of the group in order to access it. But for the one group I have joined, one could at least pull up an access page before joining, although you couldn't do much more than join from that page.
JohnnyO TUG Member Posts: 1725 From: Registered: APR 2001	posted 05-25-2001 07:46 I just cut and paste a page from the unwanted timeshares yahoo group. I suggest contacting the moderator named terry wilson on that group and ask him if he knows where that group went. ------------------ John We get to vote once every two years. Big money votes several times every day. Who really influences our politicians?
TerryWilson unregistered TUG Member Posts: 1725 From: Registered: APR 2001	posted 05-26-2001 14:34 The RITPostings group was discontinued after the indictment of the principals of that scam. Because the information was so slow in coming out of Boston and most of the RIT victims we found had also joined the UnwantedTimeshares group to continue to try to sell their timeshares, the RITPostings group was combined with the larger group. The message containing the link was a reposting of the notification to victims. The UnwantedTimeshares link does work.
ElaineA TUG Volunteer Posts: 388 From: Mundelein, IL, USA - Owner @ Enchanted Isle, FL; Causeway on Gull, MN; PAHIO @ Ka'Eo Kai, Kauai Registered: DEC 2000	posted 06-04-2001 09:46 I got back from vacation and found a message on the answering machine from a Camille at Contental Trust about our unit for sale. When I called the number this morning at various times, I got a recording about no one being there and when I tried to leave a message, the voice mail box was full. If this was ligit, what Trust company doesn't answer their phone by 10am? Guess I don't need to waste any more of my time trying to contact them. ------------------ Elaine - Central Region Reviews
JohnnyO TUG Member Posts: 1725 From: Registered: APR 2001	posted 06-05-2001 09:02 update: Still no word back from our scam friends. None of them were willing to put anything on paper as they promised they would. Anyone who falls for this is really a fool. Since there were 2 fugitives from the last bust of this type of scam in MA I thought that maybe this group may be connected to the missing fugitives. I hope the law catches up with these theives. ------------------ John We get to vote once every two years. Big money votes several times every day. Who really influences our politicians?

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