Author
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Topic: Probate and TSs
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David TUG MemberPosts: 691 From: Tucson, AZ, United States Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 06-26-2001 22:44
I attended a seminar this evening on retirement and estate planning. The speaker said that time shares were subject to probate in the state in which they were situated. Is this true? What happens if I own South African TSs? (Forget the remark, "You are dead, why worry" although it is tempting to think that way!)TIA, David
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Diane TUG MemberPosts: 713 From: Albuquerque, NM Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 06-27-2001 06:03
Some people set up a living trust for this purpose and name as beneficary or benficaries whomever they want to succeed them in ownership a their death. Avoids any probate anywhere. I don't know exactly where but I think there are forms on line to help you do this if you want to tackle it yourself. If not online the law section of of any good sized bookstore will have something on setting up your own trust. Of course you can hire any attorney, but for the money invested in most SA timeshares (at least ours) it would not be worth it. It is something to pay attention to because the obligation to continue making maintenance payments does not stop at your death and could complicate the closing of your estate. Diane
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David TUG MemberPosts: 691 From: Tucson, AZ, United States Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 06-27-2001 08:47
Diane,Thank you for the suggestion and the very clear explanation. David
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alicesantamonica TUG MemberPosts: 144 From: Registered: APR 2001
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posted 06-27-2001 11:01
Nolo Press has excellent publications on legal issues and are very readable. There is also a lot of information on their website www.nolo.com The website has a section on Wills & Estate Planning-also check out the encyclopedia section, news & features and Ask Auntie Nolo. There's a good article on living trust on their website now under news & features. An excellent book I found is Plan Your Estate (Nolo) by Denis Clifford & Cora Jordan. Make sure you get the latest edition (I know they are at least on the fifth edition) as the laws always change. Amazon sells the book for less than the bookstores and there are reviews on Amazon for the book.
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Janet TUG MemberPosts: 276 From: Mtn. View CA Owner at Sunburst (Steamboat Springs CO), Sand Pebbles (Solana Beach CA) & Strand Pavilion (So. Africa) Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 06-27-2001 11:04
quote: Originally posted by Diane: Some people set up a living trust for this purpose and name as beneficary or benficaries whomever they want to succeed them in ownership a their death. Avoids any probate anywhere. I don't know exactly where but I think there are forms on line to help you do this if you want to tackle it yourself. If not online the law section of of any good sized bookstore will have something on setting up your own trust. Of course you can hire any attorney, but for the money invested in most SA timeshares (at least ours) it would not be worth it. It is something to pay attention to because the obligation to continue making maintenance payments does not stop at your death and could complicate the closing of your estate. Diane
Be very careful following this "advice" ... first of all, a trust only avoids probate to the extent that the assets have actually been transferred into the trust (that is, assets that have not been transferred to the trust may still have to go through probate). Second and perhaps more importantly, if your estate is large enough to be subject to estate tax ($675,000 this year; $1,000,000 next year & perhaps greater if the new tax law isn't changed), a bookstore trust probably won't have the clauses necessary to avoid estate tax. My philosophy is pay a relatively small amount to an attorney now to set up your trust properly or risk paying a much greater amount later to straighten out the mess you've created [of course, since I'm an estate planning & probate lawyer, I admit to being prejudiced ] ------------------ hiteklawyr@aol.com DISCLAIMER: This is general information and does not constitute legal advice. Your state's law may have an impact on your specific situation. Before taking any action based upon this information, it is essential that you consult your own attorney. [This message has been edited by Janet (edited 06-27-2001).]
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gthorson unregistered TUG MemberPosts: 276 From: Mtn. View CA Owner at Sunburst (Steamboat Springs CO), Sand Pebbles (Solana Beach CA) & Strand Pavilion (So. Africa) Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 06-27-2001 11:31
I find it hilarious that your post (and advice) is basically that individuals who want to do this type of estate planning should consult an attorney, and yet you need a disclaimer indicating that this is not legal advice and that before doing anything you should consult an attorney.LOL ------------------ Greg in Morris, MN
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Diane TUG MemberPosts: 713 From: Albuquerque, NM Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 06-27-2001 14:23
Janet -- my post was not "advice" -- simply reporting what some people do to avoid the question of probate for SA timeshares. How you got anything about estate tax out of it is beyond me.Diane
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Kathy Datsko TUG MemberPosts: 0 From: Colorado Registered: NOV 2004
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posted 06-27-2001 14:48
We have our timeshares in a trust.I'd consider Janet's advice. The manager of one of our timeshares personally knows of a real headache situation where the owner (now deceased) put the timeshare in a trust - using your basic quit claim deed & bookstore forms, and now the whole thing is in probate because it wasn't done properly. Cost of probate exceeds what he paid for timeshare NEW. I also hate paying attorney fees (sorry, Janet!) but it's worth the cost to prevent problems. A good attorney can save you lots of headaches, and lots of $$$. Kathy
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Judy TUG MemberPosts: 1810 From: Melbourne Beach, FL & Steamboat Springs CO. owner: Celebrity Resort World of Orlando; The Ridge Tahoe; Hatteras High; Worldmark. member:II,RCI,DAE,SFX Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 06-27-2001 15:09
So if you already have timeshare deeds in joint ownership and you set up a living trust, how do you transfer your timeshares into your trust? What costs would be involved? Is it even necessary, assuming that you and your spouse don't die at the same time?
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somerville TUG MemberPosts: 1419 From: Vienna, VA, USA: 7 Mile Beach Resort, Grand Cayman, WK 51; Beach Quarters, VA Beach, WK 26; Equivest Points; Barony Beach, HHI; Hanalei Bay Resort Registered: FEB 2001
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posted 06-27-2001 15:46
Judy, You generally transer into a trust just as the property was transferred to you, by deed signed by all owners. The costs will probably vary with the complexity of your estate. Only you can decide if it is necessary. While your joint ownership transfers to the surviving joint tenants a joint owner dies, the property may be subject to probate once the last joint tenant dies. You should consult an attorney for advice, unless you feel that you can educate yourself adequately.
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Cathyb TUG MemberPosts: 1445 From: Carlsbad, CA, USA Carlsbad Inn, Trendwest , Marriott DSV & Newp, Westin MissionHills, Whaler/Maui & PonoKai/Kauai Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 06-27-2001 16:32
Our timeshares are in a Trust and we did one step further ... because we are in a remarriage and have 5 kids between us, we put words in the Trust that they draw names of the five owned timeshares out of a hat and that is their inherited unit. After that if they want to bicker and trade, that's fine but we tried to do it as fairly as possible )).
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Janet TUG MemberPosts: 276 From: Mtn. View CA Owner at Sunburst (Steamboat Springs CO), Sand Pebbles (Solana Beach CA) & Strand Pavilion (So. Africa) Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 06-27-2001 16:44
quote: Originally posted by Diane: ... How you got anything about estate tax out of it is beyond me. Diane
That's a good example of WHY you need an attorney to assist in estate planning. Depending upon the size of your estate, a married couple may be able to avoid paying any estate tax if their trust is set up properly. If set up incorrectly, they may pay the government tax dollars that could have gone to their heirs. I agree with Alicesantamonica who says Nolo Press has some good advice. I often refer my clients to Nolo books [they provide good easy-to-understand information]. However, even Nolo's book says that if the estate is large enough to be subject to estate tax, see a lawyer. I have no qualms about having my clients save on attorney's fees ... it's good for them & ultimately good for me in obtaining their good will (and referrals). However, when someone is being "penny-wise and pound foolish", I have no sympathy for the consequences. ------------------ hiteklawyr@aol.com DISCLAIMER: This is general information and does not constitute legal advice. Your state's law may have an impact on your specific situation. Before taking any action based upon this information, it is essential that you consult your own attorney.
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JanB TUG MemberPosts: 1182 From: Sacramento, CA - Owner Kona Coast, Imperial Hawaii, Embassy Lake Tahoe; Port Pacific and Village Resort, Australia Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 06-27-2001 18:26
Its may not be that easy to put a foreign ts into a US trust. We tried with our Australian resort, but found the cost of recording and "stamps", as well as the red tape, was so much more than the cost of the resort that we abandoned the attempt. Also, using the resources of our attorney was not even cost effective. Our children are good with challenges
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Diane TUG MemberPosts: 713 From: Albuquerque, NM Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 06-27-2001 20:14
Janet -- you missed the point. David said he had been to a seminar on estate planning. Obviously he is looking elsewhere for overall estate planning advice and not to a time share owners board for advice on how to plan his estate! That is what I meant when I said I did not know you how got to estate taxes from his very limited question about SA timeshares. Diane
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Mel TUG MemberPosts: 1645 From: N Smithfield, RI - owner: Orange Lake Country Club, Kissimmee FL; Tropical Breeze Resort, Panama City FL Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 06-28-2001 13:37
Diane -David may not need estate planning advice, but there are plenty of others who read these posts, and I'm sure Janet was looking out for them. As for her disclaimer, she is probably legally required to place it since she is posting what could be construed as legal advice - I'm sure she's not licensed in every state where someone will read this board. You will see the same type of disclaimer form a variety of professionals - I had to use one whenever talking about insurance products when I was an agent. Otherwise I could have been accused of "selling" an insurance or investment product without a license. ------------------ Melinda Towne Owner - Orange Lake Country Club, Kissimmee FL Owner - Tropical Breeze Resort, Panama City Beach FL Come visit my homepage
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