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Author
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Topic: Difference between HGVC and Marriott program??
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wwjdkevin
TUG MemberPosts: 137
From: Farmington
Registered: JUL 2001
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posted 07-17-2001 08:57
 
Just wondering if there is much difference between the two. They both allow you to convert into hotel points, airline tickets and priority of exchanges within the chain. I have HGVC and sometimes wish I had Marroitt and vice versa, I guess the grass always seems greener on the other side.
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Jan Handlers
TUG MemberPosts: 42
From: Camarillo, CA-Marriott Desert SpringsII, Maui Marriott , The Bay Club, Pacific Nature Shores, Grand Pacific Palisades , The Royal Sands
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 07-17-2001 10:06
We own both HGVC and Marriott. In many ways they are the same but there are some noticeable differences. It seems that I am able to get reward hotel stays with Hilton more easily than with Marriott. There are more diverse internal trade sites available with Marriott than with Hilton. I think that HGVC service is better than Marriott, especially the VC's. I also think that I get better external trades with HGVC than with Marriott. All in all, I am happy with my Marriott and HGVC purchases.
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wwjdkevin
TUG MemberPosts: 137
From: Farmington
Registered: JUL 2001
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posted 07-17-2001 13:36
From what I've read in TUG it seems Marriott owners take advantage of converting their T/S into 713 air and 714 hotel certificates, looking at the Hilton's program I would have to convert two years worth of T/S points (2 bedroom 7000 pts)for airline tickets for three people, its just not worth it.
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liubruin
TUG MemberPosts: 1603
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 07-17-2001 13:50
Doesn't Marriott's recent Reward Program changes make the timeshare-to-Rewardpoints conversion less valuable for many owners? I know there were lots of posts in the Marriott board a few months ago on this subject but I didn't pay much attention. Perhaps you should do a search for old posts if exchanging for hotel guest points is important to you. Obviously, the main difference between HGVC and Marriott is the HGV Club points system. Many HGVC owners (perhaps including you) like the flexibilty of being able to split their weeks into multiple less-than-a week stays at club resorts. (You can't do that with a Marriott week.) Another benefit is borrowing club points from the following year to have a multiweek vacation or multi-units vacation this year (for family get-togethers,etc.). There is also the ability to reserve a room in any season and any size unit at any of the club member resorts knowing exactly how many points one needs with a single call to a club VC (instead of waiting for an II exchange for internal Marriott resorts, which could take months depending on trading power and whether the owner with the week(s) you want deposits the week during your search). Yes, there are many more resorts in the Marriott system. But if you enjoy vacationing in Orlando, Marco Island (FL), Sanibel Island (FL), Miami, Hutchingson Island (FL), Las Vegas, Big Island, Los Cabos, Oahu, Scotland and soon Breckenridge, Colorado, it will take many years before you need to venture out of the HGVC system. Perhaps by then HGVC will have more resorts in the system. quote:
Originally posted by wwjdkevin:
From what I've read in TUG it seems Marriott owners take advantage of converting their T/S into 713 air and 714 hotel certificates, looking at the Hilton's program I would have to convert two years worth of T/S points (2 bedroom 7000 pts)for airline tickets for three people, its just not worth it.
[This message has been edited by liubruin (edited 07-17-2001).]
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wwjdkevin
TUG MemberPosts: 137
From: Farmington
Registered: JUL 2001
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posted 07-17-2001 14:08
I guess what I'm trying to determine is if I were to buy another T/S which one would compliment my current T/S,reading some of the Marriott posts, the writers assume you are a Marriot member and understand the conversion process.[This message has been edited by wwjdkevin (edited 07-19-2001).]
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liubruin
TUG MemberPosts: 1603
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 07-17-2001 14:24
Sorry, I think I edited my post when you responded. I do own a Marriott unit but it's one of the "cheapie" ones on resale that did not come with Reward points. You will likely get better responses re Marriott Rewards conversions and value of buying a Marriott timeshare for that benefit if you post on the Marriott Board. Actually, if you do a search you should find many potential Marriott owners' posts re same subject in past months. Some Marriott owners may not check this post if they are not familiar with HGVC. I personally do not think it is worthwhile to buy any hotel-managed timeshare for the sole or key purpose of turning the week into hotel rewards points. There is simply no guarantee that the same number of points will get you the same "reward" tomorrow. All of the rewards programs' member booklets have some language to the effect that points values can change at any time. And Marriott did just that this year. Also, unless you get a super deal, the cost of those "free rewards" (the year's maintenance fee, the conversion fee, the amortized value of your pre-paid timeshare purchase cost) can be much higher than getting those airline tickets and hotel nights on your own. Just my opinion. quote:
Originally posted by wwjdkevin:
I guess what I'm trying to determine is if I was to buy another T/S which one would compliment my current T/S and reading some of the Marriott posts it implieds you are a member and understand the conversions.
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Art
TUG MemberPosts: 988
From: Grand Island, NY
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 07-17-2001 16:00
I'm a member of both Hilton Honors and Marriott Rewards, so I have the official listings of what one can trade ones points for. On average, the Marriott point requirements for a hotel stay are 60% to 90% of the Hilton requirements for an equivalent facility.For example, the London Hilton and the Waldorf-Astoria are 195,000 points for 6 nights; the Marriott County Hall and the NY Marriott Marquis are 150,000 for 7 nights. All these are capacity controlled, for 50% more points Marriott will override the capacity controls; I don't know if Hilton has a similar deal. The maligned, degraded Marriott World trip is still good by comparison. Marriott's price is 270,000 points for two tickets from the US to London plus a week at County Hall or equivalent. If you are a Hilton Honors VIP member (get an HH American Express card), this same trip (6 hotel nights) costs 400,000 points. A 7 night Hawaiian trip is a little less than 200,000 Marriott Reward points; a 6 night Hawaiian trip is 280,000 Hilton Honors points. In terms of timeshares, a typical platinum Marriott week can be
traded for 100,000 to 125,000 points in alternate years. A few resorts (Custom House, Monarch, ?? ) can be traded for points every year. Someone else will have to provide the number for conversion of HGVC weeks into Hilton Honors points. There are some advantages to Hilton Honors. That HH AmEx card is free and one gets 2 points per dollar charged so point accumulation from credit card charges is easier. Also, on hotel stays, one does get the same 10 points/$ spent as at Marriott, AND on the order of 500 frequent flyer miles with most airlines for each stay. I've only quoted the numbers for the "world trips" since these seem to get the most value per point. If you have any specific questions, let me know and I'll dig through the member guides. Hope this info answers some of your questions. Art [This message has been edited by Art (edited 07-17-2001).]
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liubruin
TUG MemberPosts: 1603
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 07-17-2001 17:21
Art, when you say typical platinum weeks (purchased from Marriott or Marriott resale) come with 100,000 or 125,000 rewards points every other year, are you referring to a 2BR unit? A regular 2BR Platinum week in the HGVC converts to 161,000 HHonors points. Some other conversion values: 115,000 HHonors points for 2BR Gold season; 193,200 HHhonors points for 2BR "Plus" (with something extra like better view or size at some resorts); and 110,400 for a 1BR Platinum season. HGVC allows conversion to points every year, as long as you election the option by June 30th of the year. And every HGVC owner is automatically given a HHonors Silver VIP membership, so the owner can take advantage of the reduced points VIP only awards.[This message has been edited by liubruin (edited 07-17-2001).]
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sbrunnert
TUG MemberPosts: 344
From: Pomona, NY, USA Own: HGVC at Seaworld; Cove at Yarmouth
Registered: FEB 2001
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posted 07-17-2001 17:46
Also, the Hilton HHonors AMEX credit card is now 3 points per $ on all purchases and 5 points per $ spent at Hilton hotels.The biggest question, which I can't answer, is which program is it easier to get your requested reward from? ------------------
Steven Brunnert
Hilton Grand Vacation Club Information
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Jim and Cindy
TUG MemberPosts: 506
From: Anthem Arizona, USA,Hurricane House flex (HGVC)
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 07-17-2001 19:03
Until recently we were both HGVC and Marriott owners. We sold our Marriott Cypress Harbour week and bought another unit in the HGVC system. We were much happier with HGVC customer service, the VC's and the ease of exchanging with HGVC. It was always a hassle to try to get the exchanges we wanted with Marriott. II has very limited inventory and required long search periods. I also agree that we have gotten much better exchanges through HGVC and their arrangement with RCI.We love HGVC's point system. We are rewarded with point savings by travelling off season or staying in smaller units. Because of Marriott's lock-offs, there are often only 1 BR or efficiencies available. If we traded our 2 BR for one of those, that was our loss. Regarding the Marriott Rewards program, we took advantage of it several times, but the recent changes are significant and a sign that you can be assurred of future increases in point requirements. In addition, once you are used to staying in timeshares, a hotel room stay, no matter how nice of a resort, becomes much less appealing. If you pay Marriott developer prices for the Rewards option, you WILL take a loss when selling. Marriott does have more locations, but there seems to be major flaws in the planning of their recent resorts. For example, the new Miami, Panhandle and Newport Coast villas are inland. Also, the Miami and Palm Beach resorts are near not so desireable areas. We want to spend most of our time in Southwest Florida and occasionally Orlando, HGVC is the best choice for us.
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dmk
TUG MemberPosts: 100
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL USA - Owner: Charter Club of Marco, Dikhololo, Place on the Bay
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 07-18-2001 09:27
The biggest difference between the two is that you can buy an owner resale and join the Hilton points club. With Marriott, unless you buy a resale thru their approved agencies, you can't convert to points. I was able to join HGVC with a $5K investment, Marriott would have cost me $12K to $15K. The only downside to the Hilton group is that there aren't as many properties (timeshare) as Marriott. However, for us, living in Florida, there are plenty.
Dawn------------------
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness" Mark Twain
Florida East Coast/Keys Review Coordinator
Owner - Charter Club of Marco Beach
Dikhololo
Place on The Bay
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Art
TUG MemberPosts: 988
From: Grand Island, NY
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 07-18-2001 09:38
liubruin - Thanks for the data on the HH points for giving up your week. It looks like the higher HH points cost for a reward is pretty much balanced by getting more points for a trade. That 6 nights instead of 7 on the "world trip" might be the biggest negative. I suspect that the accountants have worked it out so that the two programs are equal.As for ease in cashing in on rewards, Marriott does the air part by putting miles into a frequent flyer account of your choice. You then get to deal with the airline and its capacity controls. Need input from an HGVC person on how Hilton handles the air tickets part. As for getting Marriott rooms, the searching part is easy. You can got to the Marriott site and check whether there are rooms available for reward points at the time you want to travel. It is fun to play with if you have some flexibility in your travel plans. On the other hand, I have no idea of the total rooms in a hotel that either Marriott or Hilton make available for reward travel. Do we have someone out there that knows these numbers? Art
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Art
TUG MemberPosts: 988
From: Grand Island, NY
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 07-18-2001 09:39
liubruin - Thanks for the data on the HH points for giving up your week. It looks like the higher HH points cost for a reward is pretty much balanced by getting more points for a trade. That 6 nights instead of 7 on the "world trip" might be the biggest negative. I suspect that the accountants have worked it out so that the two programs are equal.As for ease in cashing in on rewards, Marriott does the air part by putting miles into a frequent flyer account of your choice. You then get to deal with the airline and its capacity controls. Need input from an HGVC person on how Hilton handles the air tickets part. As for getting Marriott rooms, the searching part is easy. You can got to the Marriott site and check whether there are rooms available for reward points at the time you want to travel. It is fun to play with if you have some flexibility in your travel plans. On the other hand, I have no idea of the total rooms in a hotel that either Marriott or Hilton make available for reward travel. Do we have someone out there that knows these numbers? Dawn - being able to get points on a resale not purchased through Hilton sounds like a big plus for Hilton. Art
[This message has been edited by Art (edited 07-18-2001).]
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Lenora
TUG MemberPosts: 284
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 07-18-2001 13:29
How does HGVC work from a timeshare point of view. I'm a Marriott owner and as you know we get priority over non Marriott owners when trading back to another Marriott property. How does that work with Hilton? Another question is, do you actually deposit your week with RCI or do you trade through Hilton. I'm looking at trying to trade to the Hilton Hawaiian Village but I have never seen a week available. Could this just be because it's a new property or because RCI doesn't actually get the weeks???
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liubruin
TUG MemberPosts: 1603
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 07-18-2001 14:41
Lenora:There are many detailed posts from a few months ago re how HGVC works, both for HGVC-built resorts and HGVC-affiliated resorts: Search "HGVC" in the Points board. Too much to repeat here. With re internal trades, you go through HGVC, not RCI. I, too, have tried to find HHV via RCI. I have yet to see a week show up and two VCs told me they have not seen any of those weeks available for exchange. I suspect the new owners are either using their home resort or trading internally through HGVC (so weeks won't be released to RCI). With respect to the unsold weeks, I guess Hilton is having lots of success either (1) using the weeks for HGVC promotions (lots of direct mail and online advertising for HHonors members) or (2) renting them out via the regular HHV resort reservations. I know the timeshare rooms have been available because I have seen many units available online on the HGVC members "Open Season" web page. (Members get special rental rates for HGVC resorts available during the Open Season, within 30 days of check in dates. $60/night studio; $80/night 1BR; $100/night 2BR.) It was frustrating that we could not take advantage of such rooms for this summer. I still don't understand why HGVC is not releasing some developer owned weeks into the RCI system (to lure potential buyers) as many other developers do. I plan to take my parents to HHV next summer. Since trading through RCI seems so unlikely (though I have an ongoing search request), I plan to use my 2002 and 2003 HGVC points and do an internal club exchange/reservation for 2 units at the earliest point possible, which is 9 months out (since it is not my home resort). If the room availability for this summer (so far) is an indication of room availability for early next summer, then I'm pretty sure I'll get those units during my call. quote:
Originally posted by Lenora:
How does HGVC work from a timeshare point of view. I'm a Marriott owner and as you know we get priority over non Marriott owners when trading back to another Marriott property. How does that work with Hilton? Another question is, do you actually deposit your week with RCI or do you trade through Hilton. I'm looking at trying to trade to the Hilton Hawaiian Village but I have never seen a week available. Could this just be because it's a new property or because RCI doesn't actually get the weeks???
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wwjdkevin
TUG MemberPosts: 137
From: Farmington
Registered: JUL 2001
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posted 07-19-2001 07:57
If Marriott just add FF miles to your account, you can really be up the creek if you plan on traveling during airline blackout periods. I try using my FF miles and many times the airlines don't have seats available. Do the airlines somehow give Marriott priority or do you have to keep searching like the rest of us.[This message has been edited by wwjdkevin (edited 07-19-2001).]
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Dave M
Administrator
TUG MemberPosts: 6257
From: Boston, MA
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 07-19-2001 08:15
quote:
Originally posted by wwjdkevin:
Do the airlines somehow give Marriott priority or do you have to keep searching like the rest of us.
Once Marriott puts the miles in your airline FF account, Marriott has no involvement. The miles are just like any other FF miles in your account. Thus, it takes planning, sometimes a lot of planning. I have reserved and used FF tickets almost every year since these programs first started 20 years ago. I have never had a problem getting a ticket I wanted for when I wanted. But I am a fanatic for planning these trips as early (usually 330/331 days ahead) as the airline lets me make reservations.
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juanita
TUG MemberPosts: 869
From: Austin, TX, USA
Registered: MAR 2001
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posted 07-19-2001 09:36
quote:
Originally posted by Lenora:
I'm looking at trying to trade to the Hilton Hawaiian Village but I have never seen a week available. Could this just be because it's a new property or because RCI doesn't actually get the weeks???
I have been monitoring the "open season" availability for HHV. At the beginning of the summer there was plenty of space available for all room sizes. During the past couple of days everything has disappeared. Just out of curiosity I checked into booking a HGVC room through the hotel reservation system for the month of August. They're charging $360 for a 1 bdrm garden view and $380 for an ocean view. Would you believe nothing was available at least for the dates I checked. Of course August is a popular travel time for Japanese tourist. Additionally, yesterday I received the minutes for the first HGVC HHV board of directors meeting. It stated that occupancy has been running at 75% since they opened this year. Perhaps this may explain why they're hard to exchange into through RCI.
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Juanita
[This message has been edited by juanita (edited 07-20-2001).]
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wwjdkevin
TUG MemberPosts: 137
From: Farmington
Registered: JUL 2001
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posted 07-23-2001 12:38
I guess another thing I like with HGVC is that I only have to give up 4800 of my 7000 points for a two bedroom, which leaves me enough points for a off season vacation. Does Marriott charge a different price for a two br vs. two br lockoff. The price is the same with HGVC
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JeffW
TUG MemberPosts: 1564
From: Philadelphia
Registered: DEC 2000
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posted 07-23-2001 14:16
Not to go too far off tangent, but if you are an Elite traveler in your airlines's frequent flyer program, that will sometimes allow blackout dates to be waived. Medallion members in Delta's program receive that privilege. Also, supposedly 'ordinary' flyers have one pool of FF seats to search through, which supposedly increases the higher your level (Silver, Gold, Platinum in Delta's case). So, if you are a frequent flyer, you might be able to make better use of the FF miles that a Marriott reward would give you. Jeff
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JohnnyO
TUG MemberPosts: 1725
From:
Registered: APR 2001
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posted 07-23-2001 21:28
I was just at the HHV Lagoon Tower for 6 nights the week after fourth of July. We stayed there on a Hilton Honors Promotion for $250+ per night. We had some problems with the housekeeping so I had a long discussion with the Assistant General Manager. He said they have been running full for quite awhile with both Japanese and US Mainlanders. He said when they opened they gave RCI about 30 units to exchange but have since completely stopped RCI deposits and exchanges as the demand from Hilton Honors program and HGVC promotions as well as direct rentals is taking up more than enough space. They don't need RCI exchangers coming in. They are over 25% sold now and pushing hard with plans for another new tower next to the Lagoon Tower. He said that would take another 4 to 5 years to build a new tower.Hope that helps. ------------------
John We get to vote once every two years. Big money votes several times every day. Who really influences our politicians?
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