posted 08-10-2004 04:53               

quote:

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Originally posted by Hoc:
Also, remember that they do not manage or maintain the resorts. They own units within them, and (I suspect) merely pay maintenance fees to the resort management as would any timeshare owner. I believe that the reason m/fs have not increased is: 1) the annual fees allowed for a substantial profit at the time of initial sale; and 2) they are still actively selling club memberships, thus, creating an interest in keeping m/fs low. They get their profit primarily from the outrageous prices they charge to new buyers.

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If your theory is correct, then this business model is certainly unsustainable and will implode at some point in the future. That's why I would require a 3 year payback so that I could get my value within 3 years and dump the property should anything go wrong.

What appears to be fueling these low prices is the suckers that buy retail. As long as that keeps happening, then the model will last a while.

posted 08-10-2004 08:03            

quote:

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Originally posted by BocaBum99:
What appears to be fueling these low prices is the suckers that buy retail. As long as that keeps happening, then the model will last a while.

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Well, there have been suckers buying timeshares retail since it began more than 40 years ago, and I don't see that going away anytime soon.

What prevents them from assessing a Special Assessment Fee is that the program documents do not allow it.

posted 08-10-2004 08:44               

Regarding suckers, those who buy these retail are particularly being ripped off royaly since the value of what they buy is actually worth almost nothing. Far more than normal.

I guess I should feel guilty if I bought one, but if I had more vacation time, I must admit that I would do it. After all, a buyer is accountable for knowing what they buy before they buy it.

posted 08-10-2004 09:45            

quote:

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Originally posted by BocaBum99:
This is definitely a pyramid scheme that will end when new suckers, er, new sales stop.

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You presume that it's a pyramid scheme. But that's not so if the initial m/fs were set high enough to sustain the club. It just means that those who were paying $540 a year 10 years ago for 30,000 points were paying too much. Now, they're paying about market or a bit less, and in 10 years, they will be getting a bargain. Averaging, you know. Also, realize that these are RTU memberships, good only for 30 years. I think mine expires in 2020. So, new memberships are being sold, all of which continue to expire 30 years from the initial sale date.

So, to the extent that buying a house is a pyramid scheme, so is this. It relies on the continuing marketability of the product and new people coming into the market in order to sustain the model. But, it provides a product of true value, not a bare payment from the entry fees of others.

posted 08-10-2004 17:32               

quote:

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Originally posted by jrobin:
Count me among the very happy RHC members. I own a weeks based product (which I do not recommend and I am letting go) and a platimun point based membership.

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jrobin,

Do you own a RHC week or a week at a timeshare? If RHC, please tell me how you are letting go of your week?

I would love to trade my Royal Holiday week for points but Royal Holiday won't let me do it for less than 9K.

The reason I'd love to switch it is because MY mf is $645 a year and going up again next year. When I bought in 1992, it was $191. I found out later that Brigantine Beach Club, the participating RHC resort that I bought at was subsidizing half of the maintenance fee so that people would think they had a low mf and buy.

Regarding the points mf, I'd love to hear from someone who owned points when Royal Holiday started points.

posted 08-10-2004 20:51            

Notice the core URL crimes-of-persuasion.com

Perhaps someone can determine if the management company is the same legal entity as the marketing company

There are many unhappy people, however the trend I am reading here is, if you can buy it cheap enough and know how to work the system it can be a great deal, if your not willling to work within the parameters and expect it to be as easy as it was sold to you your not going to be happy.

BTW - You are a prolific poster, - Take a breath and read twice as much as you type, it's kind of like listening

------------------
It's been 89 minutes where's my free gift
dcw_ts@yahoo.com

posted 08-10-2004 22:11            

quote:

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Originally posted by dcwcce:
There are many unhappy people

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That's one of the webpages containing the complaints of the group I first spoke about. They are the ones constantly bellyaching. Yet, if you really read their complaints, what are they saying? Their RHC salespeople told them the same lies that virtually every other timeshare salesman tells prospective purchasers. Things about the ability to rent, extra bonuses, paybacks, ability to get exchanges or vacations, etc.

Some of them have the same cancellation problems that happen with most Mexican Timeshare purchases from the developers. Some didn't even try to cancel, but read their contracts well after they signed them. That is when they realize they should have read and understood their contracts before signing them, because the contracts did not state what the Timeshare Salesman told them. And then, when they decided they did not want their membership, they became outraged when RHC actually tried to COLLECT the purchase price on the contract they signed!!! And now, they repeatedly threaten to sue RHC in a class action lawsuit.

Thanks to them, all of those complaints, and their constant threat of lawsuits that likely will never happen, RHC memberships can be had for a steal.

posted 08-11-2004 03:53               

I noticed the RHC website mentioned that if you are a gold member or higher (greater than 20,001) credits/points - you can book at least 18 months in advance. With your membership Hoc, are you limited to a 12-month advance time-period?

posted 08-11-2004 07:07            

quote:

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Originally posted by MULTIZ321:
I noticed the RHC website mentioned that if you are a gold member or higher (greater than 20,001) credits/points - you can book at least 18 months in advance. With your membership Hoc, are you limited to a 12-month advance time-period?

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I don't know. I've never tried booking more than 12 months out, and I don't recall reading anything about this in the program documents.

EDIT: I just looked at the plan documents, and the rules are this: 20,000 points and less, you can reserve up to one year in advance; 20,001-30,000 points can reserve up to 18 months in advance, and above 30,000 points can reserve up to 2 years in advance.

posted 08-11-2004 08:06            

quote:

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Originally posted by vettebuf:
jrobin,

Do you own a RHC week or a week at a timeshare? If RHC, please tell me how you are letting go of your week?

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I am dontaing my RHC week to charity. I did not pay very much for the week, so it is not that great a loss. The contract I purchased was so old (~1987) that this unit could only be used at their Cancun location and not traded within the RHC system. The only positive was that you did not have to pay the mandatory A/I fee if you desired (A/I is optional for this contract). I already own a Royal Sands week, so Cancun is a location that is taken care of for me, thus it is time to eliminate this week from my portfolio. I did deposit the week in RCI and was able to book a 4th of July week at the Gaslamp Plaza in San Diego for 2005, so the trading power must be decent for this location (even though it is in Mexico).

quote:

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Originally posted by vettebuf:

I would love to trade my Royal Holiday week for points but Royal Holiday won't let me do it for less than 9K.

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I also investigated updating my RHC week to points, but they wanted $8,950 for a 35,000 point contract. I then located my points contract (35,998 with 62,435 available) on E-Bay. As I previously posted, this contract was less than $1,500 for everything. I have only seen RHC points contracts sporadically on E-bay and prices are all over the place for them. One 30,000 point contract just recently closed at a final price of $3,050 and a 10,000 point contract close at $465.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15897&item=4312965882&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15897&item=4315768751&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

I think if you look at some of the resale sites, you should be able to get a good deal.

quote:

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Originally posted by vettebuf:

The reason I'd love to switch it is because MY mf is $645 a year and going up again next year. When I bought in 1992, it was $191. I found out later that Brigantine Beach Club, the participating RHC resort that I bought at was subsidizing half of the maintenance fee so that people would think they had a low mf and buy.

Regarding the points mf, I'd love to hear from someone who owned points when Royal Holiday started points.

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I would also like to hear from some longer term RHC members because I know my RHC week M/F went up about 3% this year.

posted 08-11-2004 15:59            

quote:

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Originally posted by jrobin:
I would also like to hear from some longer term RHC members because I know my RHC week M/F went up about 3% this year.

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Here are some of the standardized annual m/fs as of 1992, taken directly from the plan documents:

5,001-10,000 points: $315
10,001-15,000 points: $365
15,001-20,000 points: $415
20,001-25,000 points: $465
25,001-30,000 points: $515
30,001-35,000 points: $665

Those were the annual m/fs in 1992. Last year and this year, I paid $315 as my annual m/f. So, the m/fs at the 10,000 point level are the same now as they were in 1992. If people with 30,000 point memberships are paying $540 m/f, then their membership fees went up by a total of $25 over the last 12 years.

posted 08-11-2004 18:18               

jrobin- You did well. I guess I'll just stay with what I have - I don't have enough leave from work to take all the getaways I like now. Cruise coming up next!

posted 08-13-2004 20:31               

In Nassau we visited Atlantis and took a timeshare tour of Harborside Resort at Atlantis, link at: http://www.harborsideresort.com . This is a Starwood property and week 52 in a 2BR will run you $78,500 with a MF of $1,734. (This is pre-construction pricing – the 3BRs sold out instantly). Everything at Atlantis is expensive, and I mean everything.

Sorry to say I know zero about the Royal Holiday Club. I’m going to read all the posts here and see if it has any place in our vacation portfolio. If it does, I’ll dig deeper and if I can add something I will.

posted 12-31-2004 08:49            

Just to confirm this is the product being discussed in hi thread despite horrible wording and unrealistic pricing correct?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15897&item=4346449087&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

?????

posted 12-31-2004 19:17               

If they went belly up tomorrow...I have gotten my money's worth out of them.

I have been quite pleased with it and while I have sold and contemplated selling others of my weeks...never this one.

On FEES...My fees HAVE gone up, but this was the only increase since the documents were written. From $765 to $805...so $40 or 5% over I think someone said 12 or so years. That's ok!

Anyway..others have covered most of the other points.

Some considerations....good and bad.

Easy to book and can book wayyy in advance, BUT the cathc is that sometimes inventory is not yet released when you try to book out 18months or more...so there is the caveat there.

No reservation fees...only cancellation, which I find a very civilized approach.

Great locations that you can't (or are difficul to ) get through other exchange companies.... But, sometimes you don't get the info ( like TUG reviews) on some locations so you have to do some independent research or take a chance. WE have had good luck here, though.

Abilitly to book partial weeks is great, but the caveat here is that they have fairly rigid week divisions that they are loathe to creak up, so we have on more than one occasion booked 4 nights and only stayed 3, for expample, but still wayyyyy cheaper than alternate accommodations even by "Wasting" a week.

Last caveat...there are, on occasion, ways to raise the prices that are not reflected in the maint fee. I have only noticed this at Dumont plaza (now Affinia Dumont) and I believe this occurred due to the change over in management, but these things can happen. Still a great deal though, but you must now pay room fees and taxes directly to the hotel adding to your costs somewhat. Prior to the change in management, you made your reservation, checked in and checked out with no bill at all!

So maybe this adds a little to your research....Good Luck.

posted 01-01-2005 16:53               

Many of the resorts seem to have 1BR units available for under 30000 points in great locations for prime seasons!

posted 01-01-2005 22:36               

quote:

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Originally posted by Hoc:

So, if you were to take full advantage, a 15,000 point membership can give you up to 40,000 points every third year, with up to 17,000 points every second year. Look at the RHC points charts, and you will see that 40,000 points most likely can get you anywhere you want to go. And the annual m/fs on a 15,000 point membership are close to $380, while the annual m/fs on a 30,000 point membership are closer to $750.

[/B]

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posted 01-01-2005 23:35            

I got more than my money back on the first trade, and now adding the Madrid timeshare into the mix, I am way ahead (nobody else has any timeshares in Madrid).

So, has anyone stayed at the Apartamentos Basilica?

posted 01-24-2005 21:04               

I think that at least a couple of times this link has gone into archive status and someone did a RHC search and then posted a new message into the link, resurrecting the thread back to active statusand creating some confusing date-lines.